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Criticisms of Coronavirus narrative and policy
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Lace em up Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
I am shocked that an individual with such an astute ability to parse information would not only quote me entirely out of context, but cherry pick the words from that quote, to strengthen a flailing argument.

Powerclean
03-07-2020 02:58 PM
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Enhanced Eddie Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
Thanks for the compliment. I know those quoted words were about Epstein and 9/11 and not corona... but you used those examples to back up your general point about conspiracy theories, and what a waste of time they really are.

You also wrote that "we don't have all the answers yet"... we're in agreement there. The only way we're going to get the answers is if we continue digging, rather than just dismiss it all as "conspiracy theory" for "sheep".
03-07-2020 03:16 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
There are conspiracy "theories" (CIA made term) that you can prove alright. When Carrool Quigley (CFR historian and Bill Clinton mentor) reports on a differen history and explains how the world is truly run and by whom, when you then find other documents like the Reece committe on foundations and the central banking ownership structure, well yeah - then it becomes not only a theory, but a far more better explanation of our system.

Second - if you see actual proof of some suppressed treatments like vitamin C, higly manipulated medical studies or even suppressed technologies, then it's another notch. When you then research certain plagues and so-called infections, find out that Zika does not cause birth defects, but pesticides certainly do, then you should doubt highly the WHO and the CDC.
Another point - you can find online plenty of talks by MDs and experts who dispute the claim other so-called plagues like the mad-cow disease. You find that a certain topical cream applied on cows had multiple nerve-damaging side-effects. The sheisters then simply claimed that it was a pathogen doing it and they simply pulled the cream off the market. Something similar happened with polio which all data points to have been caused by DDT and the vaccines did not save anyone. They even made it worse and the cases rose after vaccination until they simply changed the way cases were counted (paralysis 3 months vs 3 weeks before counted as polio). Then they pulled of DDT and other pesticides which caused it and the polio cases disappeared as if by magic.

So yeah - certain aspects of the medical knowledge are not only lacking, they are criminal - outright criminal. They are nothing more than therapy by bloodletting and they double down on it by publishing more studies that it's the best thing ever. Basic health theories should be scrapped and re-evaluated. The sheisters even claim that the toxins are similar whether you ingest it bound to food or have it injected into your blood (mercury in vaccines vs mercury in fish and food). And don't let me even start on food advice and recommendations - it gets even worse there.

Thus I have real factual data that lets me distrust most viral crap with the Diamond Princess being the best example out there. 50% of the "infected" were healthy as hell and the dead were sick and very old. It's not even clear whether they did not die from natural causes as those ships have on average 2-15 deaths per month! It could be even just a cold-virus, not even a flu with Wuhan something else going on if at all.

It's so easy in our times to have MDs in China and a few other countries publish 5 studies on 20 patients and claim that a new killer-virus is afoot. The PCR test can be designed to test for the presence of this new cold-virus that is as harmless as any other cold-virus out there, but when it spreads which it does, then you panic.

Would I stake my life on this theory? No, but I would stake my life on it that I and my closed ones including my elder family members can deal with it with vitamin C, so I personally don't care. I think this is a con or overblown by manic proportions. So yeah - it's calibrated logical thinking that lets me mistrust this - not unfounded theorization because I saw a Youtube video by some flat-earther.

Vitamin C Megadosing: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-74755.html
03-07-2020 03:27 PM
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Post: #104
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
(03-07-2020 03:16 PM)Enhanced Eddie Wrote:  Thanks for the compliment. I know those quoted words were about Epstein and 9/11 and not corona... but you used those examples to back up your general point about conspiracy theories, and what a waste of time they really are.

You also wrote that "we don't have all the answers yet"... we're in agreement there. The only way we're going to get the answers is if we continue digging, rather than just dismiss it all as "conspiracy theory" for "sheep".

The quote you used out of context and cherry picked from was only about the Epstein story. So, in excusing yourself for your quote mining you mischaracterized me. My 9/11 comment was in an entirely different paragraph.

Anyway, what relevance does the topic of the example have to the fact you used my quote out of context?

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03-07-2020 04:09 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
I noticed that they don't calculate the numbers of the recovered well in the official stat compilation:
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/...7b48e9ecf6

We can best see it with the Diamond Princess ship. The count 40 recovered among the 705 "infected", while in reality 350 never had any issues, they were healthy as a fiddle instantly. There is little information about the rest. In fact the interview with the couple mentioned a far shorter time frame of quarantine. They should have at least 400 recovered written there, but lag behind in their numbers heavily.

Since the stuff does not spread despite wide testing in any warmer countries - far away from flu weather or ship-flu facilitating circumstances, then I consider this closer to a cold-virus than even a flu-virus.

No wonder that the US does not even want to distribute the tests. They would likely have 10000+ of cases and a population that is prone to go into panic mode spurred on by the media. I seriously doubt that they want to spread it deliberately. There isn't much to spread just as it does not spread in Singapore, HOng Kong, Taiwan, SEA, Australia. The few cases were shipped in from abroad and likely here again - most sit at home not having even the sniffles.

Vitamin C Megadosing: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-74755.html
03-08-2020 07:27 AM
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Post: #106
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
(03-08-2020 07:27 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  I noticed that they don't calculate the numbers of the recovered well in the official stat compilation:
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/...7b48e9ecf6

We can best see it with the Diamond Princess ship. The count 40 recovered among the 705 "infected", while in reality 350 never had any issues

Are we sure they stayed symptom free, or is it possible they were in incubation period? I haven't seen that data.

Also - if the former, do you have a source?
03-08-2020 07:56 AM
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Emancipator Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
I replied to you in the main thread SS, I was curious about the heat aspect as well.

But Australia and Malaysia are both about to hit 100, with Australia having community transmission in various states

Egypt is also warm and shows signs of an outbreak, having exported cases to several countries already.

I imagine Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan all have more authoritarian governments with richer health care systems.
Good work at contact tracing in addition they've been extremely open with their populace in regards to infected patients, even having the ability for the public to know location and track of whereabouts.

The implications of this for Western countries is absolutely brutal.

Look at population graphs, most are top heavy. Especially for democracies, bigger older voting blocks with a lot of wealth.

"We must import to replace the lives lost"

Compared to countries with much younger demographics, less likely to be hit.

I wonder, it's perfect for globohomo facing push back. The virus also hits men harder
Although some of Europe's nationalists lean younger fighting male.

Mother Nature is a bitch & Father Time has an undefeated record
"If you watch cinderella backwards, its about a woman who learns her place." --Kbell

demographics is destiny
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2020 08:18 AM by Emancipator.)
03-08-2020 08:10 AM
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Enhanced Eddie Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
Singapore also has over 100 cases, and Thailand is officially at 50 (probably a nonsense number, from local social media I see there are lots of cases in hospitals that don't get registered at corona).

The heat clearly doesn't prevent this virus from spreading. However, it does seem to slow it down a fair bit. So far we've only seen the parabolic curves and sudden exponential increase in cases in cold places. Let's hope it stays that way.

Egypt is still at 15 cases officially, but it also seems dry climates are worse affected than humid ones. That Dr. John Campbell on youtube actually said very high and very low humidity are both probably bad and moderate humidity is better.

So based on the developments so far, it seems likely that the safer countries are 1. hot and 2. moderate (or maybe high) humidity, and the dangerous countries are 1. cold and 2. low humidity. That means:

1. Countries that are cold and dry are at high risk
2. Countries that are cold and humid are at high to moderate risk
3. Countries that are hot and dry are at low to moderate risk
3. Countries that are hot and humid are at low risk

None of this is certain but so far that seems to be what the data is indicating.
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2020 08:18 AM by Enhanced Eddie.)
03-08-2020 08:16 AM
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Post: #109
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
^^^^ Then it would be good to watch the rest of the Mediterranean and other places like the Caribbean.

Greece, Tunisia currently at 50% humid and hovering around 20C

You have Israelis and Palestinians working together currently in Bethlehem to contain an outbreak due to tourists. I don't think there's any unknown local transmission there at the moment

The Caribbean doesn't have any local community transmission currently and is currently hotter.

Indonesia only has 4, with a large population with density, hot and humid.

Mother Nature is a bitch & Father Time has an undefeated record
"If you watch cinderella backwards, its about a woman who learns her place." --Kbell

demographics is destiny
03-08-2020 08:33 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
(03-08-2020 07:56 AM)Enhanced Eddie Wrote:  
(03-08-2020 07:27 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  I noticed that they don't calculate the numbers of the recovered well in the official stat compilation:
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/...7b48e9ecf6

We can best see it with the Diamond Princess ship. The count 40 recovered among the 705 "infected", while in reality 350 never had any issues

Are we sure they stayed symptom free, or is it possible they were in incubation period? I haven't seen that data.

Also - if the former, do you have a source?

There was this interview with the young couple and the Business Insider article. The article said that 50% were completely symptom-free including the couple here as posted in the thread.

I tried to find out what percentages then were in intensive care, who had severe symptoms, but no data was published. It was an ideal situation to find the truth, but i doubt that the numbers were great.

They said that the majority of the crew - 170 people got a positive test result. Almost all of them continued to work in some capacity on the ship. The only mention of intensive care patients were people beyond 80 - some with pre-existing condition.

I mentioned that the statistical death rate on such a cruise ship is 2-15 per month. Add to it the stress and even under normal conditions under imposed quarantine and fear, then you can double that number as old people especially in the cheap window-less cabins will get crazy after a month.

Either way - it does not look like a super-virus, frankly it does not even look like a flu, because one of the interviewed above said that he had the actual flu a week before the coronavirus broke out. He got the so-called ship-flu which is a thing. Actual flu-viruses on ships infect quite a few people due to the confined areas, air-conditioning and all the metal surfaces that people hold on to. Add to it the food which is not the best and you have the ship-flu phenomenon which can infect anyone from old to young - as the true influenza does.

This here - does not make sense at all.

NO - the heat prevents spreading, because Singapore is a 100 since weeks and weeks and they keep spread exactly. They were over 100 a few weeks ago already. And they get a ton of Chinese visitors and travellers to and from China. It did not spread - barely. Singapore in fact is a perfect example - they are super-anal about it, publish even maps of patients and their locations, time-frame etc. I would wager that almost all cases in the warmer countries are imported with very limited spreading.

Non-flu weather = no coronavirus. Almost all the cases were travellers. The real number of "infected" could be 10 times as high, but no wonder - if it's just one of the thousands of cold-viruses, then it will spread across the world.

The only thing now is to actually look into this frankly insane claim that 20% are heavily impacted and hospitalized, maimed for life by this. I would seriously would want to look at it in honest appraisals, not WHO-close MDs who in the same article waffle on about the fucking fake SARS epidemic in bloody Italy which did not have any cases to speak of.

Vitamin C Megadosing: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-74755.html
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2020 09:01 AM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
03-08-2020 08:59 AM
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Post: #111
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
Quote:The only thing now is to actually look into this frankly insane claim that 20% are heavily impacted and hospitalized, maimed for life by this. I would seriously would want to look at it in honest appraisals, not WHO-close MDs who in the same article waffle on about the fucking fake SARS epidemic in bloody Italy which did not have any cases to speak of.

It's interesting that China and the West are giving this same insane 20% number.

But I think based on Korea's numbers that we're only catching 20% of cases, and 80% are so mild they never get tested. So divide all figures by 5. CFR 0.7% instead of 3.6%... ICU rate 4% instead of 20%... etc.
03-08-2020 10:37 AM
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Post: #112
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
The Diamond Princess had 1100 crew. If 170 tested positive, that’s just over 15%.

I haven’t heard of any crew deaths, or crew hospitalized. That doesn’t mean it hasn’t or won’t happen of course.

I’d also have to believe that transmission rates on a ship where you are stuck among other infected persons would be higher than it would be in a normal environment.
03-08-2020 12:27 PM
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Post: #113
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
(03-08-2020 12:27 PM)SeaFM Wrote:  The Diamond Princess had 1100 crew. If 170 tested positive, that’s just over 15%.

I haven’t heard of any crew deaths, or crew hospitalized. That doesn’t mean it hasn’t or won’t happen of course.

I’d also have to believe that transmission rates on a ship where you are stuck among other infected persons would be higher than it would be in a normal environment.

Just checked the numbers and it really works on 2700 passangers with 1100 crew members doting on them.

It essentially means that the crew were younger and from what I read - since sometimes entire parts of the crew were infected and not having contact with the passangers, they just continued working.

Would not surprise me that since most were younger, that virtually all had little to no symptoms.

Could be that the CDC is not distributing the test kits on purpose, less because they "don't want this to spread", but more because they know that it's the usual virus cult con that is not meant to grind the US into a halt - especially when in the later stages 70% of the population has supposedly a virus and is absolutely fine. That might destroy the virus cult narrative for any future endeavor.

And yeah - infection rates are higher on an enclosed ship as ship flu is an actual observable phenomenon. I would be interested what would happen if you tested on influenza strain on a ship after a few passangers got sick. My guess is that 20-30% would have come into contact with the virus as well, but with little reaction. We come in contact with thousands of viruses.

Vitamin C Megadosing: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-74755.html
03-08-2020 01:17 PM
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Post: #114
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
I spoke with a buddy of mine who is an MD and is pretty high up in the top-management of European pharma business. He also has extensive contacts to top medical researchers the entire world over.

Essentially he said that especially the Chinese were no way testing everyone of the coronavirus with the PCR tests. He knows for a fact that they simply counted everyone with a fever as a coronavirus infected. So even there - the numbers are fishy to the x-degree.

He himself is not concerned about the virus himself and most of his colleagues on the upper tier are also not overly concerned.

So even the numbers coming out of China are bogus. But they sure squashed the protests forever. Any dissident will have the virus in the future and has to be turned to ashes.

Vitamin C Megadosing: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-74755.html
03-08-2020 03:09 PM
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Post: #115
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
Great summary by David Icke... he's really come into his own in the past few years as he started talking more about the Israel Lobby and stopped talking about reptiles and shape shifters (which were always a metaphor anyway IMO)



03-08-2020 03:49 PM
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Post: #116
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
The Covid-19 worldwide panic isn't about a virus. It isn't about the mortality rate, or the public health.

Covid-19 presented a giant meteor moment of financial opportunity. It presented the chance for select individuals to score billions financial gain, while at the same time delivering an absolutely "no fault" market correction.

In the months before the hammering media hype of what is in fact just another flu/cold strain, that affects the population is pretty much the same way all others do, something else was in the news.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49760502 - "Why is the Fed pumping money into the banking system? "

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/the...oes-it-end

https://www.axios.com/federal-reserve-te...b39f3.html - "The Fed plans to keep pumping cash"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fed-pumps-7...1575993443


The incessant pumping by the FED, culminated with the Feb 12th record DOW high of 29551.42.

Coincidentally, millions of potential infectees decided to leave Wuhan 3 days prior to this market high.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/202...uarantine/

I do not believe that the mass migration out was planned by anyone. However, I do believe that an opportunity was seen to use this flu to cause financial panic and make a lot of "elites" massive fortunes.

At the same time the panic could be used to force a sweet, blameless market correction.

   

The Covid-19 worldwide panic isn't about a virus. It's not about the public health. It's about a blame-free market correction.

I know, not as sexy as 5G/CIA/MOSSAD plots. But follows the truest axiom of all evil. Follow the money.

Never let a crisis go to waste.

(This post was last modified: 03-09-2020 01:44 PM by Gradient.)
03-09-2020 01:44 PM
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Post: #117
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
< Yeah - I made some money in the preliminary rebound and then went short. I am not complaining on that front.

The mortality rate is unclear whether it's elevated at all, but since they can declare that the previously anyway to-die patient now has supposedly died of the coronavirus, then it's really easy to create a panic. Especially the little suceptibility of younger people and children is totally uncommon. It's essentially a flu-distribution in terms of mortality rate since kids now seldom are endangered by the real influenza.

The US agencies as noted don't distribute the testing kits and the reason is because they likely know that it's a shit-of-the-mill virus and they would get 10 mio. positives by now if they tested even half of the US thus utterly crashing the US economy or even worse - blowing open the con.

Better stick to the cases which die under normal circumstances anyway and test them on their death-beds.

Vitamin C Megadosing: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-74755.html
03-09-2020 01:55 PM
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Post: #118
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
I agree this is about a blameless correction and possibly even collapse. Nobody can say the central banking system didn't work if they can point to a different cause of collapse.

That said, that does not at all mean that the other agendas aren't also in play. Everything they do kills at least 3 birds with one stone.

- 9/11 gave them mass surveillance, reduction of civil liberties, several foreign wars, insurance fraud (Larry Silverstein I believe) and the list goes on...
- The wars in the Middle East gave them oil, protection of petro dollar, security for Israel, migrants for Europe, and the list goes on...
- Corona is giving them a blameless market correction, forced vaccines, war on cash, new surveillance apps, and that list goes on too...
03-09-2020 02:14 PM
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Post: #119
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
I read a purported report from a Chinese guy, source language Chinese, so I assume it's from China, that the virus originated as part of an American Intelligence Community effort to economically devastate China, and stop their ascendancy as a hegemon on the world stage. The weapon was introduced to Wuhan. Granted, it is probably untrue (or speculative), but I thought it was an interesting theory; the US gov't developing a bio-weapon to shut china out of the big leagues.
03-09-2020 02:17 PM
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Post: #120
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
delete/ accidental double-post
(This post was last modified: 03-09-2020 02:19 PM by esotericgoon.)
03-09-2020 02:18 PM
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Post: #121
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
https://www.bitchute.com/video/T1ImnxcQ_lw/

Bitchute vid - interview of Jon Rappaport with Cathrine Austin Fitts.

Cathy Fitts is a big former HuDS and Wallstreet exec - she went out into the open with many many interesting stories from her time - not only corruption, but the real shakers in the world. Her videos are usually deleted off youtube and Vimeo.

https://home.solari.com

They could easily do chemical poisonings in certain locations - Wuhan, city in Italy and especially Iran, the rest is just one of the thousands of cold-virus. There were also reports of some scientists who analyzed the testing kits that they were infected - meaning that they would give an enormous amount of positives.

Ah well... they will get their vaccines and 100 to 500 mio. + will line up for it. Millions will be damaged or killed by it, but who cares - less useless eaters.

Vitamin C Megadosing: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-74755.html
03-09-2020 02:22 PM
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Post: #122
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
Interesting article on Lew Rockwell:

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/03/bill...y-a-virus/

Quote:Trump Halts CDC Fearmongering. But Why Are Antibiotics & Not Anti-Virals Quelling The COVID-19 Coronavirus? Is It Really A Virus?
By Bill Sardi

Based on an exclusive interview with Lawrence Broxmeyer MD

BULLET POINT SUMMARY
  • COVID-19 Coronavirus is as much an ecological disaster as it is a medical one. Initially it appears to be a unique experience centered in Wuhan, China. It emanates from an environment of incinerated pig waste, airborne particles, and low vitamin D blood levels in winter, and weakened immune systems, particularly among smokers, drinkers and the elderly.
  • It is believed both the Spanish flu of 1918 and the COVID-19 coronavirus began as zoonotic (animal to human) infections. Not from bats as first reported in the Wuhan COVID-19 outbreak, but rather from pigs, and pig waste.
  • The 1918 Spanish flu pandemic began in the midst of an infectious pig slaughter of undiscovered cause, a few hundred miles from Camp Funston, what is Fort Riley today. Similarly, the outbreak of the COVID-19 coronavirus outbreak began in the Wuhan, China area in the wake of a massive kill-off of pigs who were dying from African Swine Flu.
  • Viral outbreaks arise in winter, but so does tuberculosis.
  • Some types of mycobacteria do not have cell walls and can mimic the appearance of a virus under the microscope.
  • Antibiotics cannot be used for viruses. If a virus, then why aren’t antiviral drugs working but antibiotics are?
  • COVID-19 coronavirus may just be a “passenger virus,” not the primary microbial organism that kills by filling the lower lungs with fluid.
  • Both the current Wuhan COVID-19 coronavirus and tubercular mycobacteria do not tend to infect or cause serious disease in young children roughly 5-12 years of age.
  • Fear of the COVID-19 coronavirus may be misplaced. More people are killed by Mycobacterium tuberculosis (1.7 million) in a year than the few who have been infected (~80,000) or have died (less than 2000) of the COVID-19 coronavirus.
  • It is projected that the “COVID-19 Coronavirus” will peak worldwide in March and then return in a second but lesser peak in September, in accordance with Yang’s Wuhan study from 2004 to 2013, describing the annual TB surges in Wuhan, China.
    Saying the spread of the COVID-19 coronavirus is inevitable, a CDC (Centers for Disease Control) official advised Americans “brace themselves” and prepare to shut down public schools, avoid going to church, and self-quarantine their families. These onerous measures are for a virus that has infected just 53 Americans (Feb. 25), mostly among people who traveled recently to China.

Recognizing the possibility that some officials within the CDC are potential handmaidens to the drug and vaccine industry that would benefit from such scare tactics, President Trump decided to issue all governmental statements about COVID-19 from The White House.

After all, the CDC seemed to be about ready to bring down the entire U.S. economy and shutter small businesses that would never recover from even a short quarantine.

Doomsday virus?

Irresponsible and implausible predictions that COVID-19 coronavirus could produce symptomatic viral infection in 60% of the world’s population with 45 million deaths ̶ fueled by sensationalized news reports, were purely unfounded and certainly premature. Perhaps the only thing that could be considered beneficial about these dire prognostications was when one quick-thinking woman in China used the fear of the virus in a positive way, and feigned she was infected to foil a rapist.

In the beginning of the outbreak, you could have pulled from a widely-known advertising limerick used in Las Vegas: “Whatever coronavirus starts in China, stays in China.” Now we know that this is not quite the case. Airplanes facilitate its geographical spread, but person-to-person transmission remains static. Immune status may be a controlling factor in person-to-person transmission.

Maybe just a passenger virus

But what is the sense in panicking the world over a coronavirus that is 3 times less deadly than the SARS outbreak of 2003 (9.5% vs. 3.4%). And mind you, it has still not been proved that the COVID-19 coronavirus is anything more than a non-symptomatic, non-pathogenic “passenger virus,” being picked up diagnostically but not the primary underlying cause responsible for the Pandemic/Epidemic itself.

In fact, there is direct and indirect evidence that COVID-19 is NOT from a virus at all. The SARS coronavirus, often compared with the new COVID-19 coronavirus, was present only in about half of the SARS cases and antivirals such as ribavirin and oseltamivir (Tamiflu) were not working in SARS culture plates, nor were they very effective in clinics or hospitals either. That passenger viruses do exist has been abundantly documented, as when the HTLV-1 virus (human T-cell leukemia virus Type 1) was mistakenly attributed to being causal for AIDS. And so, the question which never went away looms: are the coronaviruses merely traveler viruses from a yet to be determined primary stealth cause?

Using bacteriocidals instead of antivirals

One recent US news headline said: “Scientists claim antibiotics already on the market could treat coronavirus – despite warnings from CDC and World Health Organization that antibiotics do nothing against viruses and overusing them fuels resistant microbes.

Fact of the matter is that antiviral medicines were not found to provide benefit in either the SARS or MERS strains of coronavirus either, which broke out in 2002 and 2012, respectively. Yet this habit of administering antivirals was stubbornly clung to in the treatment of the 138 Coronavirus-infected patients hospitalized in Wuhan, China described in Wang, et al’s recently published JAMA study.

On the other hand, all of these 138 patients, and most of the 99 patients in Chen et al’s current Lancet study received at least one antibiotic, some of which have significant anti-mycobacterial as well as antibacterial activity. (Mycobacteria are small rod-shaped bacteria, some varieties which have no cell wall and are difficult to distinguish from viruses; mycobacteria cause leprosy and tuberculosis, the latter usually emanating as lower respiratory tract infection that can mimic classic pneumonia, as observed in the SARS and COVID-19 coronavirus cases.)

Antibiotics have no effect against viruses. And although it is claimed that antibiotics are and were simply being used to quell “secondary” bacterial infections in the new pandemic, the fact is that antibiotics have proved universally to be of great help worldwide to the vast majority of novel coronavirus COVID-19 victims, with or without secondary infections.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it

While “experts” have been telling us to wash our hands, have they really been doing the factual research needed to compare COVID-19 to say the Great Pandemic of 1918? Dr. Lawrence Broxmeyer MD, whose writings were previously published in the highly ranked The Journal of Infectious Diseases, doesn’t seem to think so. And his views, as expressed in an upcoming publication, aren’t alone.

During the SARS coronavirus outbreak, Wong et al, writing in the Journal of the Chinese Medical Association warned: “Preoccupied with the diagnosis of SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory syndrome) in a SARS outbreak, doctors tend to overlook other endemic diseases, such as tuberculosis.”

Perhaps Wong’s warning should be listened to. The present and ongoing COVID-19- pandemic, did not occur in a vacuum. By December of 2018, Liu et al., in a large multi-center study, proclaimed tuberculosis to be an epidemic throughout China, which still simmers on in a country with the second largest burden of that disease in the world ̶ a disease which also often begins with flu-like symptoms, and a disease whose bacilli are laden with RNA bacterial viruses called mycobacteriophages.

It was a non-virus in 1918 too

Demographers at UC Berkeley (Noymer and Garenne, Population Development Review 2000) claim tuberculosis was behind the many deaths in the 1918 Great Influenza Pandemic was specifically based upon the well-known concept that the secondary bacterial infections that cropped up in 1918 were common in TB-infected lungs.

And in Hiroshi Nishiura’s study (2012) not only was TB shown to be associated with influenza death, but there was no influenza death among controls without TB. Investigator Nishiura later concluded: “Should a highly fatal influenza pandemic occur in the future, testing the role of TB in characterizing the risk of death would be extremely useful in minimizing the disaster…”

But was Nishiura being listened to and learned from? Apparently not. Fast forward, Wuhan, China (2019-2020):

The chronological timetable of the present Wuhan “viral” pandemic suggests nothing “new” or “novel”. The coronavirus outbreak started in December 2019, first identified in Wuhan, after 41 people presented with pneumonia of no clear cause. The Wuhan winter is from December to February. Yang’s Wuhan study from 2004 to 2013, described the annual TB surge in Wuhan as being fueled by increased transmission in the winter, peaking in March, with a second smaller peak in September. Among the conditions Yang attributed to the increased transmission of TB in the winter was indoor crowding, subsequent vitamin D deficiency, and even air pollution.

The increasingly severe air pollution in Wuhan, powered by the influx of foreign companies and the increased use of incineration for waste disposal, resulted in a visible haze so thick that it reduced peripheral vision as far back as June of 2012 ̶ a haze with inhalable particulate matter, highest in the winter, which according to Yang, was of a particulate size able to harbor Mycobacterium tuberculosis and related mycobacteria. Why is this important?

Pigs

Wuhan’s economy was on fire. With it came a greatly increased demand for poultry and swine, two staples of the Chinese diet, along with the expansion of farms to raise them and the inevitable tons of waste that this brought. Even as far back as 2015, there were five major waste incineration plants in Wuhan, with many more scheduled to be built.

That was just the beginning. By July, 2018, fourteen large pig breeding farms in Wuhan, with a combined annual pig production of 1.5 million pigs pooled investments with the intent to slaughter 2 million pigs per year. China alone accounted for more than half of the world’s pig population. That is until another purported virus (African swine fever) spread throughout China which had no cure and a near zero survival rate for infected pigs, and which, by August 2019 virtually wiped out 40% of China’s entire pig population, including those in Wuhan.

Essentially one-quarter of the world’s pigs died in one year, and just before the latest coronavirus outbreak. China then did what it had to do and began to cull thousands of pigs to control the outbreak they claimed to be caused by the African swine fever outbreak in 2018.

But how many dead animals, including those in Wuhan were buried and how many incinerated are open questions. Burning pigs and pig excrement was a sure recipe for visible haze.

The Chinese government soon came up with incentive programs for livestock farmers to sell their manure to use as fertilizer, which was only marginally successful.

During a study from 1953 to 1968 (Tubercle 1970) in the UK, an astonishing 81% of pigs were found to harbor Mycobacterium avium, or fowl tuberculosis. As reported by some workers, M. avium isolates from swine represent a major threat to human beings. The similarity pre-programmed (IS1245 RFLP) patterns of the human and porcine isolates indicates close genetic relatedness, suggesting that M. avium or fowl tuberculosis is transmitted between pigs and humans.

Fort Funston 1918, Kansas USA

Similar events occurred at Fort Funston in Kansas circa 1918, thought by many to be the birthplace of the onset of the Great Influenza Pandemic of 1918.

It was only with industrial development that the US tuberculosis epidemic traveled to the Midwest and Kansas, the very American Midwest where the 1918-flu pandemic of unknown origin hit, in rural Haskell county, Kansas, in the midst of an infectious pig slaughter of undiscovered cause, a few hundred miles from Camp Funston, today Fort Riley.

It had to be more than a coincidence that by the autumn of 1918 thousands of Midwest pigs died, seemingly from the same flu-like illness and in the same Haskell County location in which the worst human pandemic in history, which would kill between 50 and 100 million people, was about to begin.

US Inspector and veterinarian J.S. Koen, for lack of another term, and with no evidence other than a hunch, quickly called this unknown disease in pigs “swine influenza,” even as it killed pig after pig.

Pigs were dying in 1918 and in 2019-20

That thousands of pigs died in the Autumn of 1918 was problematic in that bird or fowl TB, also called Avian tuberculosis or Mycobacterium avium, routinely infects birds as well as hogs and sometimes cattle –but could, under the right conditions, also infect man. So, pigs had involuntarily become the living laboratory thru which three of the main types of tuberculosis (human, cow and fowl) could mutate through the genetic exchange by their viral mycobacteriophages, much in the same fashion as has been attributed to the influenza and coronavirus. (A bacteriophage is a virus that parasitizes a bacterium by infecting it and reproducing inside it.) But, in so far as 1918 was concerned, the stage was set for disaster.

Airborne TB

Unknown at the time, but pertinent since Kansas lies squarely in America’s “dustbowl,’’ were the results of a previous European experiment wherein guinea pigs exposed to organisms like Avian tuberculosis got little or no lung disease. However, when these mycobacteria were placed in dust aerosols with particulate matter, guinea pigs came down with progressive, fatal lung disease, not unlike what was occurring in the pandemic of 1918 as well as a prominent factor in the present Wuhan air pollution with its particulate matter haze.

Burning animal waste

Ft. Riley, Kansas was a sprawling establishment housing 26,000 men and encompassing an entire camp, Camp Funston. Within that camp, thousands of horses, hogs, mules and chickens produced in excess of a stifling nine tons of manure each month. And the accepted method for its disposal was to burn it, even against driving wind.

State Veterinarian W.J. Butler would report at the 28th Meeting of the United States Live Stock Sanitary Association: “I consider contaminated manure and stagnant water the most important factors in the spread and propagation of tuberculosis.” Wang’s recent JAMA study suggested that Coronavirus may spread fastest on cruise ships and in hospitals where workers re-use gear contaminated with feces to try to conserve supplies.

And so, on Saturday, the 9th of March, 1918, a month which just happened to coincide with the annual peak surge for tuberculosis in Wuhan, China, a threatening black sky forecast the coming of a major dust storm. When this storm combined with the ashes of over 9 tons of burning manure, a stinking, stinging yellow haze resulted.

The sun was said to have gone black in Kansas that day in 1918. Two days later, on March 11th, company cook Albert Gitchell reported to the Funston infirmary saying he had “a bad cold” with flu-like symptoms. Among his symptoms were a headache, a sore throat, muscle aches, chills and fever. He also reported cleaning pig pens on March 4th, one week before feeling sick. Gitchell would never recover from this, his last illness. And by noon of March 4th, one hundred men joined him at the Army infirmary he had walked into. Within a month one-thousand men were sick and approximately 50 dead. Camp Funston was having a deadly epidemic.

These deaths were highly unusual, but nothing like what would return in the fall, when the disease would come back with a vengeance, seeming to gain strength through human passage. Camp Funston in March, Camp Devens in September (a month that coincides with the second annual TB peak surge in Wuhan), then across the country and the world, leaving an estimated 50-100 million dead globally, at least 600,000 to a million of them American, in the span of less than a year –the most destructive plague that mankind had ever witnessed.

Implications of mistaking a mycobacterial disease for a viral disease

What are the implications of mistaking a mycobacterial disease for a viral disease? While an anxiety-filled world is losing sleep over a “coronavirus” that has resulted in the deaths of less than 2000 people, a mycobacterium called tuberculosis is encircling the planet that is killing 1.7 million people a year, and is once again, the single largest cause of infectious death on the globe. And that does not even include morbidity and mortality coming from its closely related Mycobacterium avium or fowl tuberculosis, for which, although there is treatment, we have yet to develop ideal drugs to treat.

Moreover, the preferred form of both of these pathogens, once inside the body, is their tiny, hard to diagnose viral-like cell-wall-deficient (CWD) mycobacterial forms, which require special stains and special culture media, unavailable at most diagnostic centers. This leaves a situation, in which Mycobacterium avium and its cell-wall-deficient forms, highly implicated here in the present pandemic, are being picked up, according to Mattman, only 16% of the time through traditional methods.

If we are not looking or unable to look diagnostically for the underlying Wuhan pathogen, then how can we truly treat it effectively?

In 1933 researchers claimed they had first discovered human influenza “virus.” So, what was the flu virus of 1918?

Historically, in 1892 the flu was originally named Mycobacterium influenzae because it resembled tuberculosis. In the lab, both of these pathogenic organisms stain similarly on a lab slide. Staining is one method of identifying types of bacteria. Also, it was eventually found that Mycobacterium influenzae and Mycobacterium tuberculosis have similar genetic profiles.

What about reports of re-infection from coronavirus?

Physicians on the ground in China report this COVID-19 coronavirus may produce a re-infection that is more lethal than the first. Yet tuberculosis is reported to have such a high rate of reinfection that even after triple antibiotic treatment the reinfection rate is higher than the rate of new tuberculosis.

TB: The great masquerader

“Wuhan Pneumonia.” The coronavirus outbreak started in December 2019, first identified in Wuhan after 41 people presented with pneumonia of no clear cause. Chan and colleagues have characterized the present Wuhan Coronavirus pandemic as at times progressing to an “atypical” pneumonia. Such references to atypical pneumonia were used by Rist in 1929, when he found in almost 50 per cent of 300 consecutive hospital pneumonia admissions were classified as “atypical” tubercular pneumonia.

And Farber and Clarke reported 100 cases which were admitted to a general hospital for non-tuberculous pneumonia, which were found to be of a tubercular cause.

The coronavirus kills by way of the Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome (ARDS). With ARDS, difficulty of breathing results from inflammation with subsequent flooding of the alveolar spaces through fluids gathering at these sites in the lungs, blocking the proper exchange of oxygen. The number of TB cases in which people in the Orient die of adult respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) has been on the rise for some time. Professor Nanshan Chen (The Lancet, Jan 2020) cautiously suggested that the percentage of blood-borne tuberculosis as a potential cause of ARDS “might not be very low.”

Roger et al, however favor suspecting tuberculosis in all cases of acute respiratory failure of unknown origin. ARDS caused by blood-borne TB is associated with just as high a fatality rate as ARDS caused by either SARS or the Wuhan coronavirus.

Young children appear to be immune

Yet perhaps one of the most puzzling features to virologists regarding the new coronavirus as with SARS and MERS (Mediterranean Respiratory Syndrome) is that compared with adults and teenagers, it seems to have a less aggressive clinical course in younger children; that is, puzzling until one reads bacteriologist René Dubos’s observation that tuberculosis is rarely severe between the ages of 5 and 12, the very age span spared by the 2019-nCOV coronavirus.

Galloping tuberculosis

As an explanation for the precipitous death in a matter of hours to a few days recorded in some with fatal coronavirus, there was the comparable acute blood-borne miliary form of virulent “galloping” tuberculosis (called “galloping consumption” during the 1890 and 1918 flu Pandemics, a disease which, according to McCall Anderson, then Professor of Clinical Medicine at the University of Glasgow, could kill within hours to a few days even without influenza. Such galloping consumption also began with high fever and pneumonia in one or both lungs.

Also, that bats came to the forefront, as a possible vehicle of the new novel coronavirus, is no surprise. Already associated with the outbreaks of the SARS and MERS coronavirus (Middle Eastern respiratory syndrome or MERS-CoV)- bats have been recognized as the natural reservoir for over 100 other viruses including MERS, Ebola virus, Marburg virus, Hendra virus, and Nipah virus, to name a few. But then again, according to three separate reports (Scott, Griffith and Hamerton), bats can also carry mycobacteria from the M. tuberculosis complex and its viral-like cell-wall-deficient forms.

Clear evidence: vitamin C

Most mammals internally secrete vitamin C from their liver and resist infection and death from TB. The mammals that don’t secrete vitamin C endogenously (humans, guinea pigs, fruit bats, primate monkeys) are vulnerable to TB and mortal pneumonia. Even Linus Pauling realized that TB was extraordinarily sensitive to killing by vitamin C. Guinea pig research led to the discovery of the tuberculosis bacterium, obviously because their liver doesn’t secrete vitamin C and makes them prone to TB infections.

If wrong diagnosis, how can it be properly treated?

If modern medicine doesn’t really know what is causing this disease, how can it effectively treat it? It has become an unspoken reality- – that sometimes the medical industry makes more money fostering a disease than curing it. Here is how modern medicine makes things worse.

A retrospective analysis of a quarantine of elderly vacationers on an ocean liner shows the isolation actually ended up causing 619 coronavirus infections rather than the projected 70 if the quarantine was not mandated. Quarantines place infected individuals indoors, away from sunshine vitamin D which can be considered an anti-viral/anti-TB supplement.

Regarding the Wuhan outbreak, Thomas M. File Jr., president of the Infectious Diseases Society of America was also concerned that the close proximity of a quarantine could expose people “to other infections that are even more easily spread than coronavirus, like tuberculosis, which is airborne, and bacterial infections that can spread among dense populations.” (New York Times, Feb 6, 2020)

Certainly Dr. File remembered that in 1990, a new antibiotic-resistant tuberculosis outbreak took place in a large Miami municipal hospital. Soon similar outbreaks broke out in three New York City hospitals from which it spread to city prisons. Like the origin of SARS, the infection spread in a nosocomial manner (hospital origin) – from patient to patient and from patient to staff.

As in Florida multi-drug-resistant strains made the New York TB cases almost impossible to treat and the majority of sufferers died, many within weeks. By 1992, resistant tuberculosis had appeared in seventeen US states, with mini-epidemics in Florida, Michigan, New York, California Texas, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania and was reported by not the American, but the international media, as out of control.

Dr. Broxmeyer often refers to this quotation by Albert Einstein: “The important thing is not to stop questioning.” With that in mind, Dr. Broxmeyer asks one final question in regard to the COVID-19 coronavirus hysteria:

Quote:“Are we to continue to let the coronavirus serve to as a tool to create political upheaval and a bonanza for drug and vaccine makers, or do we want to face reality, act in a constructive way, and have a discussion about a disease that most Chinese, including their scientists would prefer to avoid at all costs.”
03-09-2020 02:44 PM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #123
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
Eustace Mullins on his book Murder by Injection - on the 1918 h1n1 flu:

https://archive.org/stream/MurderByInjec...s_djvu.txt





It's not the only one. I saw books written by MDs during those times who reported on it.

Vitamin C Megadosing: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-74755.html
03-09-2020 03:38 PM
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Post: #124
RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
Great interview. Good treatment options in this video too. Really belongs in the main thread or the treatment thread but he discusses the 5g angle so I don't wanna spark debate about that on the other threads.



(This post was last modified: 03-10-2020 03:25 AM by Enhanced Eddie.)
03-10-2020 03:24 AM
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RE: Skeptics of Coronovirus thread
The best assessment that we have about the real impact of the virus is still the Diamond Princess:

https://weather.com/health/cold-flu/news...quarantine

Here a man - 67yo guy - had what he put down as a 2 out of 10 cold, but spent weeks in quarantine and intensive care.

Here another young couple - got nothing:





So even the risk-group has not more than a cold, mild flu.

The virus "spread" to 30% of the entire ship population - almost all of those people haver either zero symptoms or very very mild ones.

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-diam...pril-29-34

The problem of course is when you go into full population numbers, then it becomes highly over-emotional.

I also realized that if this thing is true than this is the first ever truly viral pandemic in the world.

The black plague was due to fleas and possibly lice, other parasites being transmitted via rats to the population due to the extremely malnourished and low-hygiene population. Later on it did not get better as during the times of wigs and parfume, most barely showered, everyone had lice and rats were everywhere. I wouldn't call this viral or even bacterial.

The 1918 pandemic was caused squarely by vaccines - those wonderful wonderful wonder-drugs killing millions.

The Swine Flu, polio, bird-flu - were all overblown or highly limited viruses with no need for much intervention. Polio was even caused by DDT and other toxic pesticides which were later pulled off the market - it impacted mostly middle to upper-middle class after consumption of DDT-sprayed fruit and vegetables. IT was also dubber summer-autumn disease, but winter and spring had little fruit back then. The poor and the upper class kids had either their own fruit or none at all and were thus no affected - middle class kids bought them from the DDT sprayed plantations.

This current so-called epidemic would be the first in human history of viral origin.

And based on the accounts of the Diamond Princess where you have the most controlled population group, the most independent sources since many streamed themselves, the best account of the "intensive care" patienst, the best account of actual people dying 75-88 years - I WOULD SAY THAT THIS IS ALMOST A NOTHINGBURGER.

Even the so-called hospitalized 67yo said that he would be working if he did not know that it was so infectious.

Sure - I could be wrong and this could indeed be the very first case in recorded human history, but it frankly does not look like it especially in the real-life acounts of controlled groups like the Diamond Princess.

Once you go towards the population, then the huge numbers of 700.000 flu/pneumonia dead and the millions of daily dead of various causes - they are just making any obfuscation easy.

I take no hubris or mental masturbatory pleasure in "being right" here, I just take a calculated perception based on what I know. There are many MDs like even my buddy who is an MD and high-tier pharma-exec.

Vitamin C Megadosing: https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-74755.html
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2020 05:22 AM by Simeon_Strangelight.)
03-10-2020 05:20 AM
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