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Newbie Recovering frame after reconciliation
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thatnowrite Offline
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Post: #1
Recovering frame after reconciliation
Hi All,

After my girlfriend broke up with me, we were appart for like a month.

While appart, she wrote me quite a lot about all my mistakes in the relationship, and I admitted many of them to her. Let see, those were legit mistakes from my side but nothing out of the ordinary (did not listen to her now and then, behave arrongantly in some situations, etc.). I apologized myself to her, and we are now back together.

Looking it now from a calmed perspective, this whole breakup act looks like a way for her to gain frame control, and in some aspects she succeded.

Currently we are fine; she is behaving well and she is also making improvements. But I am sure I lost quite a lot of frame and do not know when she will cash her new adquired power.

Don”t want to break up with her, but want to know how much damage I did to the relationship admitting too many mistakes and apologizing for them; and how to regain frame (and possibly respect from her).

Any advise will be appreciated.
02-17-2020 11:12 AM
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PixelFree Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
You don't do damage to a relationship by admitting genuine mistakes or poor behaviour.

This is what men should do.

Just apologise, fix whatever behaviour you need to do and then move on, but don't let her constantly go over it again and again and pound you into the ground about them.
02-17-2020 07:15 PM
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thatnowrite Offline
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RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
Many thanks for your answer.

I am also concerned that she kept in mind every single word that she did not like of our past relationship. It looks she also asked questions to measure my answers. I took many of those questions as sheet tests and my answers were in line with “agry and amplify”, which later backfired on me.

As mentioned, currently everything is going well, but somehow I have the sense I lost some respect from her.
02-18-2020 02:52 PM
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Repo Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
A good way to judge is to ask yourself "is she behaving well", "does she respect what I want /ask her to do", "does she go out of her way to do nice things for me".

If she does all of these things, then you still have frame.
02-18-2020 09:51 PM
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Augustus_Principe Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
(02-18-2020 02:52 PM)thatnowrite Wrote:  Many thanks for your answer.

I am also concerned that she kept in mind every single word that she did not like of our past relationship. It looks she also asked questions to measure my answers. I took many of those questions as sheet tests and my answers were in line with “agry and amplify”, which later backfired on me.

As mentioned, currently everything is going well, but somehow I have the sense I lost some respect from her.

As per old red-pill wisdom, it is the man that should be willing to walk away from a relationship. The fact that instead of vocalizing her grievances with you, working them out and instead decided to break-up with you, then get back together after a month is suspicious. I say this because based on experience, when a woman breaks up with you, in her head it is USUALLY a done deal, unless of course things with Plan B didnt work out. I don't want to disrespect your gf or put negative thoughts in your head, but it is possible that she broke up with you to test the waters with another man. When things with that man didn't pan out as she thought they would (after 1 month) she decided to hear you out and give it another go, now with her wielding the power in the relationship.

I don't want to say outright that this secular relationship is bound to fail, but from the bit that you have described here, it seems doomed to fail in the future. At the very least, it should have been her asking for you back, not the other way around. Of course as a Man, you SHOULD own up to honest mistakes, but it takes two to tango and im sure your ignorance/behavior had to do with the stimuli she was giving you.

How sad was she when you both broke up? Was she in tears the day she broke up with you, realizing you might never change? or did she seem confident in herself?
02-19-2020 09:57 AM
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Dr. Howard Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
^ All great points of advice above.

The other thing to remember is that she is a woman, her brain is like a computer hard drive rather than a stone tablet. She can overwrite all of your past history in an instant or keep in on file forever. It all depends on how she feels, and her emotional state.

Treat each day, or even moment like you first met. If she was mad at you yesterday, it doesn't mean she will be today, it doesn't matter if you act completely irrationally.

Act like you never even broke up. If she brings up the past and continues to weaponize it against you, you've got problems. It indicates which is more important to her...being with you or henpecking you about your faults.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
02-19-2020 10:51 AM
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questor70 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
I really think it's men who are more apt to forget the negatives. Women just file them away until the next fight where they haul it back out as ammo.

How I view conflict and the breakup/makeup cycle in general is to ask myself one and only one question.

If I were to imagine what it would look like to fall in love with a woman and settle down and get married, would it include fights and breaking up and making up and laundry lists of fix this and fix that?

NO!

another way of framing that is this...

I also imagine myself engaged or married and being asked to relay the story of our relationship up to that moment. How awkward would it be to shrug off or paper over all that conflict? How can I summarize the relationship in such a way to make a convincing case that the two of us belong together rather than being, at best, codependent?

I can never really address the above. You could say I'm looking for too much of a storybook romance, but if you've had problems leading up to commitment when you're typically on your best behavior then it's just a harbinger for more problems downstream.

So for me, I have a very low tolerance for friction/conflict beyond which I permanently (and I do mean permanently) invalidate the woman for long term commitment.
(This post was last modified: 02-19-2020 11:20 AM by questor70.)
02-19-2020 11:19 AM
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thatnowrite Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
Many thanks you all for the answers.

@Augustus_Principe: You are right in many aspects. Let me explain:

1) I always played some kind of low level dread game on her; she thought I was willing to walk away. But after the breakup, she discovered I wasn’t that prepared to leave her, and now she knows for sure my dread game is not for real; that in reallity I care deeply for her, and want her by my side.

2) She tried several times to tell me about the issues that were bordering her, those were legit issues which I tried to solve. There was a last fight in which I walked literally away for four days. After that we talked again and keep in contact, until she broke up with me.

3) She was calm at the moment of breaking up with me, but had like a week to calm down before it. When we talked after the breakup, she was sometimes quite emotional.

4) I am not that concerned about other men. I am no saint, and certainly have not been a saint in the time we were appart (no details to comply with new forum rules).

5) The other day we were talking about our problems, which in short looks like: - Lack of mutual trust, derive from some mistakes I made; and - we are not supporting each other when needed. She claimed she can not be open about her problems with me because I am arrogant, etc; and I cannot look for emotional support from her because she has some kind of allergy to my weak side (all women are like that in my experience, unless you are bleeding they think you are manipulating them).

She is very good and kind to me otherwise. We had some other issues in the past which are now solved. But in my experience I need to regain her respect, the lost frame, the will to walk away if needed.

Other question, is it normal that if you show weakness to a woman, she reacts negatively? It is not only with my current girlfriend, but with all women in my life: I can get them to do everything for me, but forget the emotional support, I never get it from a woman.
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2020 11:52 AM by thatnowrite.)
02-21-2020 11:42 AM
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MajorStyles Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
1.) How old are both of you?
2.) How long have you been going out together prior to the breakup?
3.) Are there any acutre problems, such as drug addiction, health issues, or difference of opinion with regards to having children?

Sometimes bigger issues are the real problem; however, they manifest themselves as smaller issues becuase one of the partners does not want to discuss the topic anymore.

"Action still preserves for us a hope that we may stand erect." - Thucydides (from History of the Peloponnesian War)
02-21-2020 12:55 PM
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thatnowrite Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
Hi,

I am older than her for a little more than 10 years; we have been together for close to a year, and there are some major issues, but not related to drugs, alcohol or the like.

We want to have children together but do not agree completely on the timing.

I would like to repeat my last question, and it is: is it normal that I cannot rely on women for emotional support? or I am doing something wrong? As mention before, if I show any kind of weakness or hesitation, I not only don’t get support, but a negative reaction. Not only with this woman, but with all woman I have got in my life.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2020 10:54 AM by thatnowrite.)
02-22-2020 10:54 AM
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questor70 Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
(02-22-2020 10:54 AM)thatnowrite Wrote:  is it normal that I cannot rely on women for emotional support?

That has been my experience, unfortunately. They will cheerlead for you like a thoroughbred as you power through your career goals and will tolerate reasonable speedbumps along the way but they will not lift you up when you're truly down on your luck or facing some sort of existential crisis. The fantasy of a woman propping up a struggling man shown in something like A Star is Born is by far the exception and not the norm. Women want to feel like they're riding on your coattails and the only momentum in your life is upwards. You carry them, not the other way around. Of course, that's an unfair expectation and very selfish, but it means you have to at least shield her from your insecurities and go elsewhere for support. Women 'support' men only as long as they feel they're making a long-term bet on a 'winning horse', so to speak. It's strategic and self-serving, not altruistic or emotional.
(This post was last modified: 02-22-2020 01:55 PM by questor70.)
02-22-2020 01:44 PM
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Post: #12
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
Ive always treated the woman in my life like I do the government. I dont depend on her to be anything other than a non- liability. As long as she doesn't get in the way of my purpose then she's a passive asset and we get along splendidly.

In return she gets to ride along for a very pleasant journey.

Weakness in a man is anathema to a woman's attraction wiring. Oh they say they want a "sensitive, caring, thoughtful" man who's not afraid to cry.

Horseshit.

Chalk that drivel up to being verbal regurgitation of their social conditioning. Like in so many aspects of the male / female dynamic, disregard what she says and pay to what she does.

Imagine you are about to have sex with your woman which you are very attracted to. At the crucial moment you pull her panties down you find a steaming turd in there. For most normal men that would squelch the attraction on the spot.

A man's weakness is like that turd to a woman. Now the example might be extreme but it illustrates the point.

Attraction in a woman is a visceral response. A part of that attraction response transitions from the initial phases in an LTR. "Respect" becomes a bigger part of the formula. Respect as in she has to see you as bigger, stronger, capable, experienced etc. Her wiring requires that you be "more" than her.

Weakness, especially emotional, is "less".

All women require some amount of "dread" in order to stay engaged and invested in the relationship.

The key is

A. Be to be a man that has "more" inherent value to begin with.

B. Find a woman that requires less "dread" maintenance (see Happy Gene in my signature) as it can be exhausting and not for the long haul

Is she's not afraid to lose you then youve already lost her

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(This post was last modified: 02-22-2020 02:49 PM by PapayaTapper.)
02-22-2020 02:47 PM
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thatnowrite Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
Yes, I get support talking to my brother... but from women... forget it. Even the sweetest of girls will react badly to something like this: “today I am sad, I have too much stress and need an extra kiss and that you undestand my mood and my low energy by now”.

I did not know if I was doing something wrong, or if it were a normal female behaviour.
02-22-2020 03:17 PM
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bucky Online
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Post: #14
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
(02-17-2020 07:15 PM)PixelFree Wrote:  You don't do damage to a relationship by admitting genuine mistakes or poor behaviour.

This is what men should do.

Just apologise, fix whatever behaviour you need to do and then move on, but don't let her constantly go over it again and again and pound you into the ground about them.

This is just my two cents, so take it as you will but I believe a man should rarely if ever apologize directly to a woman he's with. Even if she wants him to apologize on some level, his actually doing so will make him look weak in her eyes and lead to her feeling less attraction for him. Is this logical? No, but these are women we're talking about, and you want to maximize your woman's level of attraction for you at all times.

I don't think I've ever directly apologized to my wife for anything and I've been with her for almost ten years now. She adores me, and she's apologized to me for various things many times in the past. All of them were warranted, but in each case if the situation were reversed I wouldn't have apologized to her directly.

In past relationships, I was a typical beta nice guy an went with the conventional wisdom that a man should admit his mistakes and apologize when he does something wrong. Looking back I think that always damaged my standing with the woman. Once in a while I'll do something really dickish or dismissive and feel like I SHOULD apologize to my wife but I never do it directly. She's into me enough that an extra long embrace or a more-affectionate-than usual smirk in her direction will usually do it, but never an actual "honey, I was wrong, please forgive me."

I suppose a caveat to this is that if you aren't a sociopath you should avoid very serious stuff like beating her up or cheating on her, or even very intense insults ("emotional abuse" in the parlance of our times). I imagine a normal man would feel a great deal of guilt after doing something like that and the temptation to apologize would be enormous.

So, my advice is don't apologize directly to your woman. Learn how to apologize indirectly if you really need to instead.

Feminism in ten words: "Stop objectifying women! Can't you see I've hit the wall?" -Leonard D Neubache
02-22-2020 04:46 PM
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kazimierzdabrowski Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
(02-22-2020 04:46 PM)bucky Wrote:  So, my advice is don't apologize directly to your woman. Learn how to apologize indirectly if you really need to instead.
From the CH days:
"Mistakes were made."
02-24-2020 01:24 PM
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RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
(02-24-2020 01:24 PM)kazimierzdabrowski Wrote:  
(02-22-2020 04:46 PM)bucky Wrote:  So, my advice is don't apologize directly to your woman. Learn how to apologize indirectly if you really need to instead.
From the CH days:
"Mistakes were made."

I remember Heartiste recommending a Donald Trump apology if you simply must apologize. No groveling. I think you can get away with "mistakes were made" as long as you say it quickly and move on without dwelling on it.

Feminism in ten words: "Stop objectifying women! Can't you see I've hit the wall?" -Leonard D Neubache
02-24-2020 10:56 PM
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thatnowrite Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
Papaya, bucky and all of you: many thanks!!!

You are great! haha: “mistakes were made”.

But currently it is a little too late to turn back in time and deapoligize the way I did. For the future, “mistakes were made” is gold.

Where can I find good advises like the above, to read how to manage a relationship?

@Papaya: she has the happy gene; I am the one lacking it.

She broke up with me last time for a number of reasons: jelousy (she had valid reasons for have been jelouse); she talked too much with her mother about our relationship and recieved bad advise from her; she mean I am selfish and arrogant (could be, but I am also very sweet to her, and take care of what she needs, not what she wants). She used the breakup to push things working her way, I apologized a lot but in reallity everything is as before, except for some minor comunication changes.

I feel she is deep converted into me; I am sure she knows my value is higher than hers; I know she is afraid of loosing me (despite her breakup act), but she display no vulnerability. It is not that I want to break her will: I truly want her to be happy, but want to stop the stupid rebellion she is always in, and accept I am her captain and she never will be no more than the first mate.

My mistakes so far are most probably not those she complained about (arrogance, etc.), but more like giving her too much attention.

I am a little more than 10 years older than her, as mentioned before. We are both from Latinamerica and living in Europe.

Many thanks again.
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2020 05:24 AM by thatnowrite.)
02-27-2020 04:38 AM
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Augustus_Principe Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
(02-27-2020 04:38 AM)thatnowrite Wrote:  Papaya, bucky and all of you: many thanks!!!

You are great! haha: “mistakes were made”.

But currently it is a little too late to turn back in time and deapoligize the way I did. For the future, “mistakes were made” is gold.

Where can I find good advises like the above, to read how to manage a relationship?

Any archive of old Red-pill/masculinity sites like RooshV, Return Of Kings, chateau heartiste, Roosh's now unpublished book "Game" etc.

If you are 10 years older than her, and she is treating you this way, i will say again that this relationship is not on solid foundation. If you are 10 years older, SHE should be the one acting the way you are because you are inherently higher value (or at least should be).

This forum has moved away from "Game" because of exactly the type of relationship you are describing. Sure, with "Game" you can likely recover this or even avoided this situation, but why? For ease of access to fornication (sex)? She's using fornication as a bargaining chip to keep you wagging your tail like a dog, and you follow, trying to find ways to "keep her". The sex is darkening your intellect. Ironically, the chase for sex is causing you to lose your masculinity, and your girlfriend can sense this, hence acting the way she is.

My advice, get closer to God and make your own path to achieve piety and virtue. Either she follow's suit or you drop her and continue your journey. You need more time to develop who you are.

I mean no offense, but you are not ready for courtship (Dating) if you have not yet figured out your own self-worth, chasing after sex, getting back after breakups, especially one's who are 10 years your junior.

If you choose to ignore my advice, at the very least, check the archives of the above sites i mentioned. I guarantee you thought that it will not help you to find a future wife willing to have children and build a future with you.
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2020 08:56 AM by Augustus_Principe.)
02-27-2020 08:54 AM
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thatnowrite Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Recovering frame after reconciliation
Dear Augustus_Principe,

Many many thanks for your answer! I appreciate your advise; only thing is the relationship with her is not based on sex; I would have easy of access to fornication with other women if I would like, but I am also removing myself from that kind of life; I am not chasing her for sex.

We have had some issues with the intimacy, came out she though I was using her for fornication as you mentioned. But those issues are now solved.

You are right we did not have a strong foundation. But other than her childish behaviour, I like her as a person and even my family like her a lot.
(This post was last modified: 02-27-2020 09:46 AM by thatnowrite.)
02-27-2020 09:43 AM
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