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Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
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thedream Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
(02-07-2020 05:18 AM)Hypno Wrote:  He hasn't gone into too many details about her. I have known men whose wives turned out to have mental and emotional problems, drug problems, or crime problems like shoplifting and check fraud. (These were well above average guys with options, these women conned them). So consider whether marrying this woman is enabling her problems and worse for your child.

Also, ending a marriage and getting custody is difficult, time consuming, and expensive. Questor70 makes it sound like its not.

She doesn't have any drug, legal, or criminal problems. Nothing even near to that.

Her problems are entirely emotional and stem from the fact she was raised without a strong father figure or any male role models.

I do believe she can improve over time.

Do I think she will ever be the "model wife" so many of us here at RVF dream about? I don't think so. It's not in her nature, and I do believe that being submissive and obedient is something that has to be in the girl's nature + nurtured into her over her whole life from both parents.

She wasn't brought up to be submissive.

This article recently shared by Roosh on his blog is a good example of the general concept: https://russia-insider.com/en/culture/pa...em/ri27459

But do I think there is hope for her to improve? Yes, I do. With time and maturity, she can improve. She can also improve by being lead into the right frame of mind with good influences such as church, church groups, good community, etc.

I am trying to be as optimistic as possible. Especially now with her being pregnant. Pregnancy is a massive stress that none of us will ever fully comprehend since we biologically can't. It's one of those things a person cannot simulate because it can only be experienced.
02-07-2020 01:58 PM
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Post: #77
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
(02-07-2020 01:58 PM)thedream Wrote:  
(02-07-2020 05:18 AM)Hypno Wrote:  He hasn't gone into too many details about her. I have known men whose wives turned out to have mental and emotional problems, drug problems, or crime problems like shoplifting and check fraud. (These were well above average guys with options, these women conned them). So consider whether marrying this woman is enabling her problems and worse for your child.

Also, ending a marriage and getting custody is difficult, time consuming, and expensive. Questor70 makes it sound like its not.

She doesn't have any drug, legal, or criminal problems. Nothing even near to that.

Her problems are entirely emotional and stem from the fact she was raised without a strong father figure or any male role models.

I do believe she can improve over time.

Do I think she will ever be the "model wife" so many of us here at RVF dream about? I don't think so. It's not in her nature, and I do believe that being submissive and obedient is something that has to be in the girl's nature + nurtured into her over her whole life from both parents.

She wasn't brought up to be submissive.

This article recently shared by Roosh on his blog is a good example of the general concept: https://russia-insider.com/en/culture/pa...em/ri27459

But do I think there is hope for her to improve? Yes, I do. With time and maturity, she can improve. She can also improve by being lead into the right frame of mind with good influences such as church, church groups, good community, etc.

I am trying to be as optimistic as possible. Especially now with her being pregnant. Pregnancy is a massive stress that none of us will ever fully comprehend since we biologically can't. It's one of those things a person cannot simulate because it can only be experienced.

I am pretty sure all women have father issues; they love their dads, hate them, miss them, etc. No woman escapes this. But for a woman to have a father issue that he was not the man she hoped him to be is tough one. There are plenty of women out there, I know of a few, that love their fathers more than anyone, but resent them for not having higher aspirations of wealth. These women often find themselves chasing men from money and giving them all the tradition they could want all the while looking away from their evil doings.

Being submissive means different things to women than men. Men are pros at listening to another man's directions, while not submitting to the man. Women feel these little situations are submission, which is where shit gets squirrely. If you always keep the big picture in mind, are guiding all things in that direction, you can let her win all manner of small events while not sacrificing the main goal.

Often those little battles make her feel strong enough to submit to your long term goal. Just ask a woman what her 5 year goal is. Any woman. Most have none, other than 'own this or that, travel here or there'. Ask a mother her 5 year goal and most always they say things like 'kids are doing well in school, everyone is healthy, spend more time together as a family'.

I don't think social media is going anywhere, and even in the church its ubiquitous among the women - of all ages. Have a search through her 'search' page on instagram. That will tell you more about what she is looking at and where her mind is. Healthy social media:

- DIY
- Friends
- Landscapes
- Health
- Cooking
- Kids

If she is only looking at women showing tits and ass, balling out with dudes on boats and patios, day club dance parties, etc, then you will have an unhappy and very resentful woman.
02-07-2020 08:47 PM
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Post: #78
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
(02-07-2020 05:18 AM)Hypno Wrote:  ending a marriage and getting custody is difficult, time consuming, and expensive. Questor70 makes it sound like its not.

That's just because I didn't want to commandeer the thread with my own personal story. I mean, I had the full monty, my car getting keyed, restraining orders, custody exchanges at police offices, hidden cameras capturing restraining order violations, psychological evaluations, supervised visitation...

And I really didn't need it to be full custody if I actually thought she could be a competent parent. The full custody fell into my lap because her Amber Heard style BPD traits erupted right in the psychological evaluation.

Here's the thing, though. I knew a divorce was probably inevitable, but I did NOT do my research on how to actually go through with it. That made things a lot more difficult for myself than it had to be.

I assumed my ex would behave better through the divorce process for the sake of the child rather than living up to the old adage "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". As tough as it is to maintain cognitive dissonance, he should assume this woman he's going to marry and try to "love" (emphasis on quotes) will become his arch nemesis the moment he moves out of the house. So it's sort of like marrying a "frenemy". That's how it has to be. If she's going to flip on a dime, he must err on the side of caution right from the start.

Trying to bargain for a prenup is fine, but also plan an escape strategy like your life depends on it.

There is a huge case of YMMV with this one. There is always a power struggle in any relations between men and women and when you throw a child into the mix that struggle is akin to all out war which means there will be a lot of uncertainties and the need to make countless on-the-spot decisions, all with downstream impacts.

I took a lay of the land, did what I felt I had to do at the time, both at the start and when I pulled the ripcord, and while I still regret the irresponsibility that led to the conception in the first place, I don't regret how I handled it from that point onward. I feel like my daughter is much better off now than had I been at arm's length all this time.

As a postscript, now that my daughter is over 18 and in college my ex recently tried to reach her through me. I didn't pick up the phone and then she called my parents who told her off. My daughter doesn't want anything to do with her although I suspect given enough time my ex will eventually figure out how to reach her directly and there will be some sort of contact. But the bottom line is that after the divorce was finalized my daughter had no contact with her for the duration of her childhood. Maybe I just got lucky but it's hard for me not to feel like it was the least bad outcome. Of course, my social life, being Mr. Mom, has been very limited, but again, like I said, having kids forces you to reevaluate your priorities.

(02-07-2020 08:47 PM)Laner Wrote:  If she is only looking at women showing tits and ass, balling out with dudes on boats and patios, day club dance parties, etc, then you will have an unhappy and very resentful woman.

Not to mention a poor mother. That goes with the territory with an unplanned pregnancy. Just because she's a woman doesn't mean she has a maternal instinct and can be responsible.
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2020 01:18 AM by questor70.)
02-08-2020 01:12 AM
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thedream Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
(02-07-2020 08:47 PM)Laner Wrote:  I don't think social media is going anywhere, and even in the church its ubiquitous among the women - of all ages. Have a search through her 'search' page on instagram. That will tell you more about what she is looking at and where her mind is. Healthy social media:

- DIY
- Friends
- Landscapes
- Health
- Cooking
- Kids

If she is only looking at women showing tits and ass, balling out with dudes on boats and patios, day club dance parties, etc, then you will have an unhappy and very resentful woman.

Solid point here and means a lot to me. Thanks for that. Enforcing this is also something she can't argue you with since it's logical. Social media of this type I'm fine with.
02-09-2020 12:53 PM
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thedream Offline
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RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
(02-08-2020 01:12 AM)questor70 Wrote:  
(02-07-2020 05:18 AM)Hypno Wrote:  ending a marriage and getting custody is difficult, time consuming, and expensive. Questor70 makes it sound like its not.

That's just because I didn't want to commandeer the thread with my own personal story. I mean, I had the full monty, my car getting keyed, restraining orders, custody exchanges at police offices, hidden cameras capturing restraining order violations, psychological evaluations, supervised visitation...

And I really didn't need it to be full custody if I actually thought she could be a competent parent. The full custody fell into my lap because her Amber Heard style BPD traits erupted right in the psychological evaluation.

Here's the thing, though. I knew a divorce was probably inevitable, but I did NOT do my research on how to actually go through with it. That made things a lot more difficult for myself than it had to be.

I assumed my ex would behave better through the divorce process for the sake of the child rather than living up to the old adage "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". As tough as it is to maintain cognitive dissonance, he should assume this woman he's going to marry and try to "love" (emphasis on quotes) will become his arch nemesis the moment he moves out of the house. So it's sort of like marrying a "frenemy". That's how it has to be. If she's going to flip on a dime, he must err on the side of caution right from the start.

Trying to bargain for a prenup is fine, but also plan an escape strategy like your life depends on it.

There is a huge case of YMMV with this one. There is always a power struggle in any relations between men and women and when you throw a child into the mix that struggle is akin to all out war which means there will be a lot of uncertainties and the need to make countless on-the-spot decisions, all with downstream impacts.

I took a lay of the land, did what I felt I had to do at the time, both at the start and when I pulled the ripcord, and while I still regret the irresponsibility that led to the conception in the first place, I don't regret how I handled it from that point onward. I feel like my daughter is much better off now than had I been at arm's length all this time.

As a postscript, now that my daughter is over 18 and in college my ex recently tried to reach her through me. I didn't pick up the phone and then she called my parents who told her off. My daughter doesn't want anything to do with her although I suspect given enough time my ex will eventually figure out how to reach her directly and there will be some sort of contact. But the bottom line is that after the divorce was finalized my daughter had no contact with her for the duration of her childhood. Maybe I just got lucky but it's hard for me not to feel like it was the least bad outcome. Of course, my social life, being Mr. Mom, has been very limited, but again, like I said, having kids forces you to reevaluate your priorities.

(02-07-2020 08:47 PM)Laner Wrote:  If she is only looking at women showing tits and ass, balling out with dudes on boats and patios, day club dance parties, etc, then you will have an unhappy and very resentful woman.

Not to mention a poor mother. That goes with the territory with an unplanned pregnancy. Just because she's a woman doesn't mean she has a maternal instinct and can be responsible.

I see you really did go through it all so you absolutely have a POV of experience to speak from.

It seems you were able to raise your daughter successfully.

How is life for you now that your daughter is an adult? Are you pursuing a new relationship or remarried?

Yes - I am doing everything I can to ensure that I will covered as much as possible in case things go south.
02-09-2020 01:05 PM
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How Many Bothans Offline
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RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
I'll be up front, I don't have any children yet, and I'm not married.

That being said, you don't have to be married to be a strong factor in your child's life. You can still be there for your child and build a good relationship and not have to be attached to the child's mother.

But chaining yourself to a woman you know will make your life hell is counterproductive. I doubt you'll be able to avoid using your child against her and vice versa. The best option I think would be to try and make her see reason in both of you having a healthy relationship with your child, and a respectful relationship with each other.
02-09-2020 04:56 PM
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RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
How much of this behavior of hers can be attributed to pregnancy? What was she like before she got pregnant?

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02-10-2020 12:54 PM
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RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
(02-09-2020 01:05 PM)thedream Wrote:  How is life for you now that your daughter is an adult? Are you pursuing a new relationship or remarried?

The new forum focus caters to men who are at an earlier life-stage and haven't had kids. There's no guidance for men who have already HAD kids and are single. Totally different situation when you're no longer trying to build a family or have kids but you'd still like (quality) female companionship.

The fact is that my life-goals and the goals of women I might be attracted to are in opposition. If they are young enough and haven't had kids, they're gonna want kids, and I am done with all that. I'm not pulling a Mick Jagger and starting over. If they're older single moms they are going to be desperate to lock me down and use me to pay their kids through college and be stuck with them post-wall, and I don't want that either. I've come too far and have too much to lose in a 2nd divorce.

I've learned that being in this position is a no-man's land where you have no option but to sort of tease or dangle yourself in front of women and deny them what they want. At first women interpret my aversion to meeting the family or putting a ring on it as alpha behavior. (It's not so much "alpha" as it is having been burned in the past and learning how to self-protect.) Anyway, my stance was hey, they are a consenting adult. They are free to leave. They proceed to twist themselves into knots. Dates eventually become an endless Spanish inquisition of "what are we?", "Where are we going?", invitations to go to family functions, etc... until they eventually give up and it's a real drag. You expect women to take responsibility for their actions but they always frame it as me being the jerk even though I never made promises I couldn't keep.

So you see that pattern emerge and you think maybe it's better if I just not bother at all. So that's kind of where I am. I start chatting with a prospect on a dating app for a while and in the back of my head I hear this voice saying "she's AWALT and no matter how far you go with her it's gonna end up the same as always" and it sort of sabotages the interaction.

I think the most enthusiastic men in the dating scene are those who, even if they are red pill, still haven't really worked out whether the juice is worth the squeeze, so they soldier onward largely out of faith/hope. But they say women are accessories, not necessities, and I totally get that now. Expensive accessories, both financially and emotionally. You have to be in enough of a surplus of both to 'afford' it.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2020 01:13 PM by questor70.)
02-10-2020 01:05 PM
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RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
Accountability. I don’t want to add salt to the wound but this boils down to accountability. The core of this problem isn’t that you got her pregnant. It’s systematic, big picture. You acknowledge that a child is a blessing which I commend you for, but you are regretful that it’s with the woman you describe. I am sympathetic to your situation but at some point we have to take full accountability and responsibility for our actions and especially our sex. Many of the men here, myself included, probably have had sex with women that would not EVER want to become pregnant, but it was ALWAYS possible. By having sex with her, we are affirming the woman an opportunity to become a mother to OUR child, like it or not. This is a lose lose but you’ve got to find a way to take full accountability, make peace with God and move on with life whether it means staying with her for the child’s sake or abandoning her for yours. This is your call, brother. Good luck and God bless.
02-10-2020 01:42 PM
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Post: #85
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
I am also a child of divorce, two divorces, to be exact but in both divorces, I stayed with my father. Which was in hindsight, the right decision. My biological mother did not want to have a child at her age, at the time, she was about 25 years old and was still partying hard, it was the mid-80s.

To make a long story short, my father made the mistake of marrying my mother and then re-marrying not too long after into another, more toxic, relationship. I saw first hand how that marriage nearly destroyed my father mentally and financially, and my father had created a son in that marriage, too, and that ended with my half-brother resenting my father (mainly because he was brainwashed by his nutcase of a mother) and wanted only money from him by the time he turned 18, him and I haven't spoken since 2008. Put that into perspective.

There's a great book written by Helen Smith (Ph.D. in Forensic Psychology): 'Men on Strike' and in her book, she talks about what the majority of western media refuses to discuss, divorced fathers who have their children taken from them and financially ruined by the legal "justice" system. Many of these fathers have no other direction to go in, believe they have nothing to live for without their children and, ultimately, take their own lives.

I am not saying you shouldn't try to turn things around with your fiancee because, ultimately, you must weigh those options. Personally, because of watching what my father went through in both of those marriages that I have, mostly, sworn off marriage in western countries until the laws are changed (made fair to both parents) but what I am advocating for is, that you make sure that you are there, as much as possible, for your child. Do not hesitate for one second, to think, that your happiness over the well-being of your child is paramount. Your child will be looking to you for guidance as they grow older and you need to show them that you have no doubts in your mind that you will always be there for them.

Best of luck, brother.

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02-13-2020 03:10 PM
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RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
Overall thought: When it is important then as a man we have to at least try to win and never withdraw without a fight.

In this case you can as easily withdraw later as you can now. Divorce is always possible, why do it prematurely? Securing your finances for after divorce is a good idea though.

I presume you are in a de-facto marriage even if you are not married legally because you are awaiting your baby.

> I don't think constantly using game tactics even works.

I am constantly using game tactics in my marriage since I know about game. Our relationship is mostly very good. There are brief lows but basically it is good. When you get used to Game it will not bother you any longer. That is just everyday routine. There is nothing bad in that.

If you find that hard and a bad thing then maybe you have a bad perception about Game. It is about always being playful and never allow her to direct you and never let her think that she is on a pedestal. And lead her. That can be enough in a relationship.

> I have enough work to do in my business and don't want another full time job. I want to feel comfortable when I am at home with my family.

You can only feel comfortable at home if you never get lazy in the Game. Even if you could marry an angel: she will turn into a harpie if you do not Game her regularly.

> She is addicted to Instagram. ... She he has generally narcissistic tendencies.

Yes, that is a huge problem. If I would see such a tendency to rise then I would somehow limit network usage. But it is extremily hard to limit the network usage of a strong independent wahmen. Catch 22. You have to work on that somehow.

> I don't want to have to "train" her all my life. That's what you do with children.

It is extremely useful to practice the techniques on the wammen that you will have to practice on your children later.

> I don't believe in hitting kids.

You will... Latest when they are doing something dangerous and you will have to solve the issue under time pressure.

> Even just being with her for a weekend trip is uncomfortable because I am always waiting for the next tantrum or issue.

This is a well known situation in The Red Pill. Shows that your frame is weak. It could be true that the wammen is dramatic. But you have also failed and you can do better.

> I'm completely aware of how difficult being pregnant is for her and how scared she must be.

Women are scared of being pregnant when there is no oak tree man around. You have to be the oak tree and she will not be scared.

Yes, being pregnant has some objective danger but it is part of a normal life. Nothing to be scared of. And women who have a stable relationship with a stable man are not scared of it.

> Being pregnant is painful and uncomfortable.

How is it painful? I haven't heard about that yet. It is somewhat uncomfortable but she should not make a fuss about it. Part of normal life. Maybe your first move should be to not allow drama about "uncomfortable" things.

> "Daddy is pretending to love mommy all the time"

What if you do not pretend love but you only pretend taking care of her because she is the mother of your child? Then you do not even have to lie at all.

If you also want to have sex with her - what I would recommend in a marriage - you can have sex without being in love. Because that is a necessity for your well being which she provides. Love is not a must in marriage and not a must in sex.

More about love: it happened to me more than once that I fell in love with a wammen _after_ we broke up. I was very regretful even though at the moment it seemed very clear to me that I have to break up with the woman. Falling into love requires a lot of time and relationships are tending to be short these days. Maybe if you give her time you will fall in love with her. If you can tame her using Game techniques then you will have a high chance of falling in love.


What I would recommend:

* Make a paternity test! If it is not your child then you do not have to help raising it! Pre-birth paternity tests are available after about the 8th week of pregnancy. Nifty test, PrenaTest, etc. https://www.niftytest.com/
* Carefully read and implement what The Red Pill teaches a man about relationships with wammen. _Implement_! What I see here is that you started to know about the Red Pill but you are not really believing in that and definitely you are not using that. If you don't know and use The Red Pill/Game then your relationships will not work. Period.
* Do your best to fix your relationship with the mother of your child. Basically you have to earn your frame and then maintain it. Itt will be hard and will take much time.
* Have an escape strategy: After raising a child together in most countries you will be de-facto married even if you do not marry legally! Be prepared financially and emotionally for a divorce! This will have a controversial effect: the better prepared you are the lesser chance that she will want to divorce.
* Do not fake emotions that you don't have. That is not manly. Better to even hide emotions that you have.
* Make her comfortable about the pregnancy! Make her sure that you will help her giving birth: but only as long as she plays along your rules. This has two benefits: she can relax about the pregnancy issue but she will know that you have standards that you expect from her.
* Even if you fail at the end then at least you tried and you have learned much from doing the Red Pill way.
02-13-2020 07:39 PM
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Post: #87
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
I am not a father, but I am married to a woman who grew up without one. I married her for the good qualities, some of them shared with yours.
But I really identify with:

1/ She never had a father or strong male figure.

2/ She constantly tries to use the tactic of guilting me. This happens on a daily basis.

3/ She doesn't respect my leadership. If that's my fault, OK. I will happily accept that I need to improve and of course would love advice on that.

4/ She puts me in a position where I feel I have to use GAME on her constantly and that's extremely exhausting and doesn't make for a good family environment. --> for sex, for example?

5/ She is addicted to Instagram.

6/ She he has generally narcissistic tendencies. That's entirely connected to her addiction to IG of course.

7/ This one is perhaps the worst: while she admits she's ignorant about many of the truths of the world, she is extremely stubborn. She isn't teachable. She has the quality of being ignorant yet a know-it-all at the same. This makes it almost impossible to "train" her.

8/ I don't want to have to "train" her all my life.

9/ She is dramatic. [No physical violence against me, though]

I am not sure how long I will last with her. I am very, very tired.

As you can see, there are way too many points in common.
A girl growing up without a father seems to have the same consequences everywhere.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2020 11:57 PM by McCarthy.)
02-14-2020 11:55 PM
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Post: #88
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
I'm not a dad but, if you go through with the marriage, based on everything you've written about her, she will divorce you. It's not going to be a lasting, if unhappy, marriage. She'll wait a few years so she can get a nice payday out of it, but it will happen.

You messed up. At this point, it's about mitigating risk for you and the child.

Don't get married.
The mom will be a train wreck and subject the kid to many abuses that will damage him.
Try to be the best dad you can to the kid - you'll have to deprogram him every time you see him.
Avoid arguing about anything but let the kid see you stand up to her nonsense - with any luck, he'll learn to do the same.
It will take years, possibly decades, before the kid will see things your way.

Best of luck.
02-15-2020 01:12 AM
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Post: #89
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
(02-15-2020 01:12 AM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  ...she will divorce you...She'll wait a few years so she can get a nice payday out of it, but it will happen.
...
Don't get married...

So you're already predicting she will divorce him, thereby neglecting her duties as a mother?

And, according to you, not only will she divorce him, she is already planning to divorce him but is just waiting for the optimal time to get maximum financial benefits.

Even if this were true, why should OP not at least try to make it work for his kid's sake? To save a few bucks that he might lose in a divorce settlement? That hardly seems like a good reason to embrace single parenthood without even trying to make the marriage work.

(02-15-2020 01:12 AM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  ...
The mom will be a train wreck and subject the kid to many abuses that will damage him.
Try to be the best dad you can to the kid - you'll have to deprogram him every time you see him.
Avoid arguing about anything but let the kid see you stand up to her nonsense - with any luck, he'll learn to do the same...

Really? You're suggesting that OP talk badly about the kid's mother and turn his kid against her?

If it was a feminist woman doing this, we would call it child abuse.

In what world is a father who abandons the child's mother without a fight and then proceeds to talk badly about her and turn his kid against her "being the best dad he can be?"

(02-13-2020 07:39 PM)hkhathaj Wrote:  Overall thought: When it is important then as a man we have to at least try to win and never withdraw without a fight.

In this case you can as easily withdraw later as you can now. Divorce is always possible, why do it prematurely? Securing your finances for after divorce is a good idea though.
...

This.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2020 01:39 AM by Rob Banks.)
02-15-2020 01:30 AM
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Captainstabbin Online
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Post: #90
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
(02-15-2020 01:30 AM)Rob Banks Wrote:  So you're already predicting she will divorce him, thereby neglecting her duties as a mother?

Yes.


(02-15-2020 01:30 AM)Rob Banks Wrote:  
(02-15-2020 01:12 AM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  ...
The mom will be a train wreck and subject the kid to many abuses that will damage him.
Try to be the best dad you can to the kid - you'll have to deprogram him every time you see him.
Avoid arguing about anything but let the kid see you stand up to her nonsense - with any luck, he'll learn to do the same...

Really? You're suggesting that OP talk badly about the kid's mother and turn his kid against her?

Talk honestly about what the mother teaches the kid. If that reflects badly on the mother, so be it.

(02-15-2020 01:30 AM)Rob Banks Wrote:  In what world is a father who abandons the child's mother without a fight
I never said he should abandon the child. The mother is a lost cause.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2020 03:15 AM by Captainstabbin.)
02-15-2020 03:12 AM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #91
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
(02-15-2020 03:12 AM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  ...
Talk honestly about what the mother teaches the kid. If that reflects badly on the mother, so be it.

(02-15-2020 01:30 AM)Rob Banks Wrote:  In what world is a father who abandons the child's mother without a fight
I never said he should abandon the child. The mother is a lost cause.

If this were a feminist mother asking for advice on a forum, and the commenters were advising her to leave the child's father and saying things like "Talk honestly with the kid about the father. If that reflects badly on the father so be it." and "The father is a lost cause." we would rightfully call it child abuse and call her a bad mother.

A child needs both his parents and he needs his parents to respect each other (or at least pretend to respect each other) whether they are together or not.

Just out of curiosity, would you suggest the same thing if OP was a woman and the "bad parent" was the father? Would you suggest to such a woman that she abandon the child's father and talk badly about him to the kid? Or is your attitude simply "Man good, woman bad"?
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2020 03:51 AM by Rob Banks.)
02-15-2020 03:48 AM
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Post: #92
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
(02-15-2020 03:48 AM)Rob Banks Wrote:  A child needs both his parents and he needs his parents to respect each other (or at least pretend to respect each other) whether they are together or not.

And what if the mother doesn't want to play along with that?
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2020 04:03 AM by Captainstabbin.)
02-15-2020 04:02 AM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #93
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
↑ Ok, if she isn't going to go along with it no matter what, then I guess OP can't do anything about it. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't try to make it work before he comes to that conclusion.

And even if he does come to the conclusion that he can't make it work with her and they split up, there's no reason why he should talk badly about her to his kid. Whatever problems the parents have with each other, the kid should be left out of it and not be made to choose between his parents.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2020 04:51 AM by Rob Banks.)
02-15-2020 04:51 AM
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Post: #94
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
Thanks to everyone again so far who has taken time to read and comment on my thread.

I am not legally married to her and where we live there is no cohabitation common law marriage.

I have nothing to lose by putting my best foot forward and doing my best to stay with the mother and lead her into a happy union and family life.

That's what I am going to do.

All the guys here provided good advice and I am going to be visiting this thread often.
02-15-2020 03:01 PM
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hkhathaj Offline
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Post: #95
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
I wish you good luck! I also hope you will do your homework and study The Red Pill and Game and apply it properly onto your relationship! Be clever, be strong and be cautious!

PS: Don't forget the paternal test!
02-16-2020 09:09 AM
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thedream Offline
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Post: #96
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
Hi all

I would like to provide an update.

Without getting into the details, I have started the acceptance process that there is a very slim chance this relationship will work out. I give it 10% chance.

It's painful but with time it will pass.

My focus now (and purpose of this post) is to ask if any of the guys here know the law regarding my situation with the child.

I am a US citizen. The mother is not. We are not legally married.

I already know for sure that the child will become a US citizen so long as I register the child and under oath declare to take care of the child until 18 years of age. No problem there.

I am responsible to take care of my child as much as I can given the circumstances.

Option 1: The child lives with the mother in her home country. I fly there once per month and spend 1 complete week focused on teaching my child and providing guidance and anything he or she (don't know sex yet) needs.

Option 2: I try to fight for full custody in the US. I have no idea how complicated this would be. The only argument I have is that the mother's country is a shit hole. But it's not the shittiest shit hole. Still there is a war going on there so I at least have an argument there.

Option 3: ???

I want to avoid living in her country by all means. Of course I will do this for my child. But if I could avoid it, I would. It's a shit hole.

Does anyone here have insight on this situation, whether it be another option which I have not considered carefully or the legal stuff of fighting for full custody? If I got full custody, my mother would help take care of the child from the female side of things and she would provide very good care. Of course she couldn't breast feed the child but she could provide the feminine things which I could not.

Of course my vision for the future would be to God willing meet a new woman and have a family but that's not important right now. Right now all that matters is doing what's best for my child.
03-04-2020 11:46 AM
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Lee Harvey Pozzwald Offline
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Post: #97
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
Not married, ok. You have to entertain the possibility that if you get married, she could divorce and take half. It is a high likelihood she will divorce you. So, why are you trying to get married? Maybe keep a holding pattern until you have more info/ more exposure to this girl. If a divorce were to happen it will be her that initiates it and not you.

Another thing that is problematic is that she is not from US. She is cut off from her support structure and family I presume, and this means she could be a flight risk. I would be VERY concerned about her taking off with your kid when she decides its the opportune time to do so. This is super common. I would be drafting up contingency plans if I were you. If she leaves you're never getting your kid back. I could regal you with horror stories, but lots of these cross-cultural relationships do not work.

Which brings me to my next point, you want the kid raised in the US. For obvious reasons. Education, lack of crime, health care that is good, access to your family, better work opportunities here.

At this point it's no longer about you, it's about the kid. Doing what's best for your kid. All sort of problems could surface with this woman.

As far as what's best for the kid, of course it's best if they're raised in one home with both parents. But the onus is on you to prepare for a future where she leaves. And, you will have to fight to get custody.

I have seen men fight for their kids, for custody. It will require extensive documentation of issues you've had with the mother, outbursts, and even audio recordings of interactions and telephone calls. The courts are biased against men so you will have to do all these things.

To get back to the question of having both parents in the picture, strive for that. All these school shooters and weak soybois lacked a father who was present in their lives (many raised by single mothers in fact).
03-04-2020 03:18 PM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #98
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
Quote:... you want the kid raised in the US. For obvious reasons....

I disagree.

The US might have the best economic opportunities, but is has one of the worst cultures in terms of degeneracy.

Depending on what country OP's woman is from,
and assuming OP has enough money to not be dirt poor in that country, there are reasons why he might want to raise the child over there and avoid the degeneracy of American culture.

I suppose if you have a solid marriage and raise your kids right, then you should be able to avoid them becoming typical American degenerates, but OP has said that this woman might not even stay together with him. Do you really want your child raised by a single mother in degenerate America?
03-04-2020 04:17 PM
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Lee Harvey Pozzwald Offline
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Post: #99
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
^^speaking of US culture in one broad stroke. It depends on the part of the country you're in...

The US is not one monolithic culture, and with the rise of the internet, cable television, etc, there is despite all indications to the contrary a very strong christian culture.

Take for example the South, way more religous than the northeast, with basically half of people going to church every week.

Look at Colombia, most the women there are single mothers, despite the country's catholic heritage.

There is no escaping the export of american culture, unless perhaps your residence is in North Korea.

My firm opinion is that OP should fight for custody if they split. If she takes the kid out of the country, or they split overseas, the system will be biased towards the native mother.

Watch this vid, the guy in question imported a japanese wife, had a kid and provided for them. One day she left with the kid. He will never get his kid back because SHE LEFT the US. This guy makes 500k a year and because that kid got on the plane with the mother to japan, he will never see his kid in the US again.



(This post was last modified: 03-04-2020 04:28 PM by Lee Harvey Pozzwald.)
03-04-2020 04:25 PM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #100
RE: Dads: Should You Stay For Your Kids Even If You Are Extremely Unhappy?
Quote:he US is not one monolithic culture, and with the rise of the internet, cable television, etc, there is despite all indications to the contrary a very strong christian culture.

Take for example the South, way more religous than the northeast, with basically half of people going to church every week.

The culture in church-going parts of the country are just as degenerate as people in the big cities.

Maybe a few families here and there are not (whereas in the big cities everyone is), but the overall culture is just as degenerate. They all listen to the same popular music and have tons of tattoos. Drugs and drunkenness are popular. Women are expected to work and even join the military.

I’ve seen tons of pictures online of young “conservative” women holding guns or draped in an American flag while wearing bikinis or skimpy clothes.

Even homosexuality is starting to be more and more accepted, even in the South.

I have lived in South America (in a country that is predominately white), and while American culture is certainly spreading there, it is not as widespread. Drugs are seen as ghetto and low-class rather than cool. Sex is considered to be something you only do if you’re in a relationship. Overall, if you have money, it would be easier to raise a family with traditional values than in the US.

And I don’t know about Colombia, but in my country in South America the majority of women are NOT single mothers.
03-04-2020 05:21 PM
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