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My wife left me and it's my fault
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #126
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
I got about half way through the video.

It seems like what he's saying is more geared towards casual dating (especially in situations where the girl wants commitment but the guy doesn't) than marriage, but I guess the overall point is that you shouldn't have explicit conversations about the state of your relationship, and that makes sense.

The last few times I saw my wife (before our last big fight), we were already separated and not living together. Whenever I would explicitly say "I want you back" or express to her in words that I wanted a relationship with her, she would get VERY resistant and claim not to want any sort of relationship with me. However, when I would express it to her non-explicitly (for example holding her hand and telling her I was having a good time with her) she would go along with it and not resist, and would express through her body language that she still had deep feelings for me.

I guess my point was just that I have no problem waiting and allowing the relationship to "develop naturally" (like the guy talks about in the video), but people have pointed out to me that I am fooling myself if I think a married couple can be broken up for this long and then still get back together in the end.

Even the most loyal, traditional woman will get lonely and start to lose interest in her husband if she is 29 and has been split up from him for over a year (especially if her very traditional father supports and encourages her NOT to go back to her husband).
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2020 05:44 AM by Rob Banks.)
02-16-2020 05:41 AM
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Post: #127
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
(02-16-2020 05:41 AM)Rob Banks Wrote:  I got about half way through the video.

It seems like what he's saying is more geared towards casual dating (especially in situations where the girl wants commitment but the guy doesn't) than marriage, but I guess the overall point is that you shouldn't have explicit conversations about the state of your relationship, and that makes sense.

The last few times I saw my wife (before our last big fight), we were already separated and not living together. Whenever I would explicitly say "I want you back" or express to her in words that I wanted a relationship with her, she would get VERY resistant and claim not to want any sort of relationship with me. However, when I would express it to her non-explicitly (for example holding her hand and telling her I was having a good time with her) she would go along with it and not resist, and would express through her body language that she still had deep feelings for me.

I guess my point was just that I have no problem waiting and allowing the relationship to "develop naturally" (like the guy talks about in the video), but people have pointed out to me that I am fooling myself if I think a married couple can be broken up for this long and then still get back together in the end.

Even the most loyal, traditional woman will get lonely and start to lose interest in her husband if she is 29 and has been split up from him for over a year (especially if her very traditional father supports and encourages her NOT to go back to her husband).

I know I've said this before, but I was in a very similar situation to yours with my ex once, so I feel for you. It's actually a little painful to read your posts sometimes because they bring back things from those times that I haven't thought about for a long time. The part above about her resisting when you openly tell her you want her back, but her body language showing that she still wants you on some level otherwise, is something I experienced and I remember how maddening it was.

I've said before that you need to get over your oneitis for her, and I stand by that. That said, and I'm not 100% sure I should say this, but as far as getting back together with her I suppose anything is possible. I'm saying this because a friend of my wife's just remarried her ex husband, something I definitely didn't see coming. Pretty blonde American girl, and her husband is from Africa somewhere so huge cultural differences and not surprising that their marriage didn't work out the first time, and won't surprise me if it fails again, but who knows. With God anything is possible. They have kids together, so maybe she had more motivation to take him back than your wife does with you, but still anything is possible. I still doubt your wife will get back together with you, but if you put your trust in God and stop thinking that your life is over without her, I think whatever is best for you will eventually happen. Probably after a lot of suffering, but still.

Good luck, man.

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02-16-2020 09:23 AM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #128
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
Thanks for the response.

(02-16-2020 09:23 AM)bucky Wrote:  ...
The part above about her resisting when you openly tell her you want her back, but her body language showing that she still wants you on some level otherwise, is something I experienced and I remember how maddening it was.
...

I find it interesting that your ex was also like that. I thought my wife was crazy for this, but I guess that's just how women are in these situations.

In my case, I believe the reason is that that her rational thoughts don't match her true feelings. Her rational thoughts are telling her "I don't want him back. He did X Y and Z and I can't forgive him for it. I would also be betraying my parents if I went back to him." But her inner feelings don't match up with that.

That is probably the reason why she hasn't divorced me. Although she tells herself she is better off without me, she subconsciously knows that once she signs those papers, the marriage is officially over, and it is too painful for her.

That is also why she is capable of going months without talking to me but then if I do something like show up unannounced at her appointments (which is technically stalking and you would assume it would REALLY piss her off), she is extremely sweet and nice as soon as she sees my face.

When I write to her, it is just words on a page and she can easily dismiss it, but when she actually sees my face, it brings out her true feelings.

I feel the only thing I can do is to find out where she's going to be and show up unannounced (I know it sounds crazy but I've done it many times in the past and she always reacts well). Writing is not going to do any good.

(02-16-2020 09:23 AM)bucky Wrote:  ...With God anything is possible....

I know this sounds ridiculous, but I feel like it is my destiny for this to not work, and for everything I do to be just a bit too late.

Last year, I quit drinking and drugs, but it was too late (my wife had been begging me to quit for years, and by the time I actually quit, it was literally 3 weeks after she left).

Now, more recently, I start going to church and finding God (on the advice of this forum) and it appears I was a few weeks too late on that one, too. 3 weeks before I posted this thread, I had made some crazy threats to my wife that caused her to cut contact with me.

I want to believe that my patience and "giving her time and space" is going to help fix things (in the past it always has), but I am afraid the more time we don't talk, it will just drive her further away.
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2020 10:10 PM by Rob Banks.)
02-16-2020 09:45 PM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #129
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
Update:

A few days ago I texted her and she didn't respond. Afterwards, I texted her a very long (polite, non-confrontational) letter telling her how I feel about the situation, asking her to put herself in my shoes, and telling her (again, very politely) that I have no problem giving her time and space, but for her to please be honest with me if she wants a divorce or she doesn't plan on speaking to me ever again.

She responded: "Stop bothering me or else I will block you and then I will file for divorce."

On the one hand, I believe that if she truly wanted a divorce, she would just get one instead of threatening. This is also not the first time she has threatened divorce and not meant it.

But on the other hand, I might be over-analyzing her response. Maybe it just means "I hate you. Fuck off." and there is no deeper meaning behind it.

I have gotten advice from certain people saying I should not confront her or even engage with her for now. Since I know that my wife is safe and not in danger, I should focus entirely on myself and getting close to God, and I should wait till later on to try to talk to her. That makes a lot of sense.

At the same time, I have had people tell me that it doesn't look like the situation with her will improve. I can wait for her and be patient all I want, but it won't do any good. My only choices are either to confront her (which will probably end in divorce but at least I will get some closure) or to keep calm and keep waiting (with the understanding that I will probably never speak to her again).

For now, I am choosing to work on myself and focus on God. However, I highly doubt that this will change her behavior. She is not going to care if I am changing my ways, finding God, or whatever. That makes it extremely hard to stay motivated to stay on the right path. I am spending more and more time drinking alcohol and doing degenerate things like watching porn, and less and less time being productive. I am close to flunking out of school. It seems the only thing I am motivated to do is to go to church on Sundays. I know that this is bad and I should be stronger than this, but it is simply where I'm at right now.

Another thing people around me have pointed out is the possibility that my wife might be acting this way out of hatred and that she wants me to suffer. This is very hard to believe. I do not believe she would do that. But multiple friends and family members have told me this. Maybe I am being naive to think she would not do this. Maybe she even does it subconsciously.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2020 04:02 PM by Rob Banks.)
02-26-2020 03:31 PM
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Post: #130
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
Thirty days no contact.

In the meantime, you want to meet with all of the lawyers in your area.





Aloha!
02-26-2020 04:14 PM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #131
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
(02-26-2020 04:14 PM)Kona Wrote:  Thirty days no contact.
...

I already did this.

After the incident right before Christmas, I didn't contact her until late January.

At first, it seemed like she was slowly starting to engage with me again, but then she abruptly stopped and started getting angry when I would text her.

I'm not sure if waiting yet another 30 days is going to change anything.
02-26-2020 04:20 PM
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Post: #132
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
Do it again. With two differences:

1. This time after the 30 days write a detailed report of everything you've been doing to improve yourself and your life. If you want to have something meaningful to report then thats your motivation

2. Demand nothing in return (not even a response). You are no longer in a position to expect anything so dont. She already gave you 10 years. Shes fed up with your demands

Do this every month. The above should keep you motivated with a short term interval goals whilst allowing you to keep the emotional connection open you seem determined to..even if its not reciprocated

Only time will tell but if she ever believes youve actually made progress she will let you know

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(This post was last modified: 02-28-2020 06:14 PM by PapayaTapper.)
02-28-2020 06:11 PM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #133
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
(02-28-2020 06:11 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  Do it again. With two differences:

1. This time after the 30 days write a detailed report of everything you've been doing to improve yourself and your life. If you want to have something meaningful to report then thats your motivation

2. Demand nothing in return (not even a response). You are no longer in a position to expect anything so dont. She already gave you 10 years. Shes fed up with your demands

Do this every month. The above should keep you motivated with a short term interval goals whilst allowing you to keep the emotional connection open you seem determined to..even if its not reciprocated

Only time will tell but if she ever believes youve actually made progress she will let you know

Thanks for the response, and what you're saying makes sense.

Just one thing. Do you think I should be "reporting my progress to her" rather than just texting her in a more friendly not-so-intense way (for example asking how she is doing, offering to help with any immigration-related paperwork, maybe sending her copies of the computer programs I am learning to write in school)?

I feel like if I am always talking about my problems and what I am doing to overcome them, her internal reaction is going to be "Why are you telling me this? It's your business, not mine." Also, by talking about overcoming problems, I will be reminding her that the problems existed in the first place and that is likely to bring her bad memories and cause her to feel re-traumatized. She tends to be very sensitive to things like that.

Additionally, I feel like it might be a bit naive and even selfish of me to expect her to care what I do to improve myself.

Let's say I did something fucked up that ruined your life (for example if I lied to have you sent to jail, or if I killed your brother). Then, after the fact, let's say I started writing to you every month telling you all the things I was doing to become a better person. Are you going to care? Of course not. Your reaction would be "I don't care what you're doing to become a better person. All I care about is that I'm in jail/my brother is dead and it's your fault. Now fuck off!"
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2020 08:50 PM by Rob Banks.)
02-28-2020 08:39 PM
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Post: #134
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
I would stop contacting her entirely. You cant force, or logically convince someone to want to be with you. By continuously contacting her all you are doing is pushing her further away.

If you self improve with the intention of making her want you it's not righteous and she will (rightfully so) only see it as an attempt to manipulate her.

I would go out and start meeting new women. I think it will give you a new perspective. You dont have to bang any of these women but you should be able to make a female friend. If you cant even make a female friend how do you expect to be able to keep a wife?
02-29-2020 11:24 AM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #135
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
(02-29-2020 11:24 AM)tr1cky Wrote:  ...You cant force, or logically convince someone to want to be with you...

OK, but what if the feelings of desire/love/deep connection are already there but she is logically convincing herself to ignore those feelings?

I would like to think I am good at reading people's emotions (especially if it's someone I know very very well). The last few times we saw each other, it was obvious that she subconsciously wanted to spend time with me but she would then claim "I don't want to be with you because you did X Y and Z and I can't forgive you for that, my parents don't like you, etc. etc."

For months last spring, she claimed to not want to see me anymore, but then when I showed up unannounced (i.e. stalked her) at her doctor's appointment, she was very nice and ended up spending hours with me, after which she wanted to see me again.

That is why this is so frustrating. If the feelings were truly gone, I probably would not be so inclined to chase after a girl who truly didn't want me. I would be more inclined to think of her as a cold-hearted bitch.

I know that if I saw her face (or even spoke to her by phone), things would start to change and the feelings would come back, but I don't have a way to make that happen.
(This post was last modified: 02-29-2020 01:16 PM by Rob Banks.)
02-29-2020 01:15 PM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #136
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
Delete
(This post was last modified: 02-29-2020 08:14 PM by Rob Banks.)
02-29-2020 07:38 PM
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Post: #137
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
(02-29-2020 01:15 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  
(02-29-2020 11:24 AM)tr1cky Wrote:  ...You cant force, or logically convince someone to want to be with you...
OK, but what if the feelings of desire/love/deep connection are already there but she is logically convincing herself to ignore those feelings?
"Logically convince herself to ignore those feelings"
Listen to yourself. This sounds like a massive case of oneitis.
"I called her but she doesn't want to talk, what if I can logically convince her to hear my arguments and see me so I can convince her with facts and logic to be attracted to me again"
You want her to see you? Then get a tingle flowing again.
03-01-2020 10:23 AM
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bucky Offline
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Post: #138
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
(03-01-2020 10:23 AM)kazimierzdabrowski Wrote:  
(02-29-2020 01:15 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  
(02-29-2020 11:24 AM)tr1cky Wrote:  ...You cant force, or logically convince someone to want to be with you...
OK, but what if the feelings of desire/love/deep connection are already there but she is logically convincing herself to ignore those feelings?
"Logically convince herself to ignore those feelings"
Listen to yourself. This sounds like a massive case of oneitis.
"I called her but she doesn't want to talk, what if I can logically convince her to hear my arguments and see me so I can convince her with facts and logic to be attracted to me again"
You want her to see you? Then get a tingle flowing again.

Easier said than done, but I agree. Rob has bad oneitis for his wife and I think oneitis always kills attraction in a woman. Somewhere deep down your woman has to know that you have other options, even if she's your wife and you're a good Christian who wouldn't actually act on them. It's sad, but that's the way it is. This is Satan's kingdom we're living in after all, and that's why there are so many disturbing realities like this and why so many people would rather live with pretty lies than take the red pill and face reality.

Feminism in ten words: "Stop objectifying women! Can't you see I've hit the wall?" -Leonard D Neubache
03-01-2020 11:52 AM
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Post: #139
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
(02-26-2020 03:31 PM)Rob Banks Wrote:  For now, I am choosing to work on myself and focus on God. However, I highly doubt that this will change her behavior. She is not going to care if I am changing my ways, finding God, or whatever. That makes it extremely hard to stay motivated to stay on the right path. I am spending more and more time drinking alcohol and doing degenerate things like watching porn, and less and less time being productive. I am close to flunking out of school. It seems the only thing I am motivated to do is to go to church on Sundays. I know that this is bad and I should be stronger than this, but it is simply where I'm at right now.

Another thing people around me have pointed out is the possibility that my wife might be acting this way out of hatred and that she wants me to suffer. This is very hard to believe. I do not believe she would do that. But multiple friends and family members have told me this. Maybe I am being naive to think she would not do this. Maybe she even does it subconsciously.

First, you should be focusing and meditating on God more for God's sake...not to have "good things" happen in your life, etc. Right now, it seems that you are "focusing on yourself" SOLELY for the sake of getting your wife back, not for you to get better/healthier, grow in virtue and much less, to get closer to God. You can increase your "focus" on God, but if that focus is not sincere and for the sake of wordly things like your situation, you will not be helped, as you yourself are finding out first hand. You cannot expect things to change in your life when you are not being truthful with yourself. Example, you are falling back on all these vices even though you are supposedly focusing on God more. This is happening because you are not actually focusing on God for God's sake. If you continue down this path, nothing will change.

Quote:Colossians 3:23 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
23 Whatsoever you do, do it from the heart, as to the Lord, and not to men

You have to change the way you think/behave. First, start getting more sincere with your focus on God and do it for His sake. Second, you have to accept whatever outcome it is that may come from you detaching yourself from things of this world. This should be one of your main focuses. Fr Ripperger has two great videos on Attachment & Detachment. He will explain why we should be Detached from people better than I can.

Stages of Attachments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woHJtSz_KEw
Detachment :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NPXTV4yJ18

Start to actually meditate on God for real, and start becoming outcome independent of the things around you.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2020 09:49 AM by Augustus_Principe.)
03-02-2020 09:48 AM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #140
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
↑ You're absolutely right.

To be honest, lately I haven't really been trying to get closer to God. I seem to have given up on that, which is why I am falling into all these vices.

You mention Fr. Ripperger. In one of his videos he talks about how, if you sin too much, God can permanently withdraw divine grace, which means that you are condemned to hell even if you repent and change your ways. There comes a point where it is simply too late.

If and when I find out for sure that my wife isn't coming back (e.g. if I receive divorce papers or I find out she's dating someone else), I feel like people will tell me "that was God's plan all along," but that is hard to believe. I believe it is far more likely that God's plan was for me to have a family with my wife (which is why He gave her to me in the first place and made me feel the way I do about her), but I fucked up that plan by sinning too much, so now God has withdrawn divine grace and is only interested in punishing me.

When you say I should do it "for God's sake," does that mean I should be OK with the possibility of losing my wife for good, never having children, ending up old and alone and bitter, etc. as long as I am walking with God and not committing sins?

I know the answer to that question is probably "yes," but I am just not there yet.

Is wanting unity with my wife (and someday children and a family) -- as opposed to growing old and alone with no family -- equivalent to caring about "worldly things"?

It seems to me that you would have to be a very special kind of person to grow old and be alone with no family but still be able to say "I am content and I sleep well at night because I know I am right with God.", and if I'm being honest, I don't know if I'll ever be at that point.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2020 11:00 AM by Rob Banks.)
03-02-2020 10:55 AM
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RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
Dupe
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2020 11:31 AM by Rob Banks.)
03-02-2020 11:00 AM
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Post: #142
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
(03-02-2020 10:55 AM)Rob Banks Wrote:  ↑ You're absolutely right.

To be honest, lately I haven't really been trying to get closer to God. I seem to have given up on that, which is why I am falling into all these vices.

You mention Fr. Ripperger. In one of his videos he talks about how, if you sin too much, God can permanently withdraw divine grace, which means that you are condemned to hell even if you repent and change your ways. There comes a point where it is simply too late.

I have seen you mention this here before. I'm not going to pretend here and act as if i'm well versed in theology, as i'm still fairly new to all of this myself. The thing is, you JUST started going to church and i'm going to assume you're not baptized yet? or have done the other Sacraments of Initiation? You are finally becoming aware of sin and the teachings of the RCC. To ASSUME that you have "sinned too much" and that Divine grace has been taken away (what makes you think you've been graced in the first place if you just started your path towards God) seems prideful. I cant quite put it into words quite properly, but you are relishing in assuming these things that you do not know of. I believe fr ripperger is speaking of those who have been in the church, knowingly Sin over and over without any change in sight, regardless of advise and times they go to confession, and eventually divine grace is taken away. However, again, you are new to this and I am assuming you have not been initiated yet, so what he said does not pertain to you. Do not make yourself out to be your own god and assume that you know what the future holds for you. It seems you're doing that at the moment. A priest in your church would be in a much better position to help you as he would know your spiritual journey and if I were you, I would start the initiation process.

Quote:When you say I should do it "for God's sake," does that mean I should be OK with the possibility of losing my wife for good, never having children, ending up old and alone and bitter, etc. as long as I am walking with God and not committing sins?


Yes, you should be ok with the possibility of losing your wife for good. Now, on the latter, do you mean you ending up that way, or her? If you are stating she will end up never having children, ending up "alone and bitter" etc, again, you are assuming A LOT here. what makes you think she'll end up this way? If you mean yourself, then again, you are letting emotions get the best of you and are looking at the future in a black-pilled manner. For whoever you meant it, we cannot assume that person will end up a certain way.

I've never been married. The closest relationship I had to that was my first ex of 5 years way back when. We were both virgins, first fornication experience of one another, saw a life together etc. When she left me after 5 years to monkey branch to a higher SMV man, i was completely devastated. I even thought about suicide and she was on my mind constantly for 6 months and I did not get fully over her till after a year. I would contact her during the first 6 months, but nothing worked and my life seemed hopeless. Eventually I got over her, but that experienced led me down the dark path of Game and the next almost decade proceeding to fornicate and completely waste my time. Fast forward to now and now, my eyes are opened thanks to God. The point of the story was that my ex left me because i never increased my value, i was completely ignorant of my actions and I did not take it seriously. Later in life, i looked back at this and realize why this happened and how to become a stronger person from it.

Quote:Is wanting unity with my wife (and someday children and a family) -- as opposed to growing old and alone with no family -- equivalent to caring about "worldly things"?

Does she want unity with you? Did you and your wife get married in a Church, or was it civil? I am not trying to say that the marriage is a failure, but given all the details you have told us so far, it seems that this is a marriage in name only. You are caring about these things with a person who does not see a future with you because of your past mistakes. This is the price we pay and you have to open your eyes to see this. In the future, you could very well find another woman to create a family with. Or maybe your wife finally changes her mind, but you cannot hope on this as just about everything is indicating that she doesnt want to have a future with you.

Quote:It seems to me that you would have to be a very special kind of person to grow old and be alone with no family but still be able to say "I am content and I sleep well at night because I know I am right with God.", and if I'm being honest, I don't know if I'll ever be at that point.

It seems you have a lot of work to do on the spiritual side, but again, you are trying to pre-determine your destiny. This quote is what i meant earlier when I stated "wordly things". If we were still a secular Game forum, I would tell you that you need to work on being completely outcome independent, and to be content with yourself first and foremost before anything. The foundation for this marriage was rocky from the start.You made choices and now the results of those choices have bared fruit. Suffer for them, but grow from this suffering and dont relish in it, rather, grow stronger and become more spiritual. It is a "shortcut" to the "outcome independence" that Game/Red-pill guys used to teach. I would've also suggested reading Stoic philosophy. But again, Catholic teaching is superior to Stoic philosophy.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2020 12:57 PM by Augustus_Principe.)
03-02-2020 12:40 PM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #143
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
(03-02-2020 12:40 PM)Augustus_Principe Wrote:  Yes, you should be ok with the possibility of losing your wife for good. Now, on the latter, do you mean you ending up that way, or her? If you are stating she will end up never having children, ending up "alone and bitter" etc, again, you are assuming A LOT here. what makes you think she'll end up this way? If you mean yourself, then again, you are letting emotions get the best of you and are looking at the future in a black-pilled manner. For whoever you meant it, we cannot assume that person will end up a certain way.

I meant myself.

(03-02-2020 12:40 PM)Augustus_Principe Wrote:  Does she want unity with you?

Deep down, yes. I explain below.

(03-02-2020 12:40 PM)Augustus_Principe Wrote:  Did you and your wife get married in a Church, or was it civil?

No, we did not get married in a church. It is civil. This is because at the time neither of us was religious.

(03-02-2020 12:40 PM)Augustus_Principe Wrote:  I am not trying to say that the marriage is a failure, but given all the details you have told us so far, it seems that this is a marriage in name only. You are caring about these things with a person who does not see a future with you because of your past mistakes. This is the price we pay and you have to open your eyes to see this. In the future, you could very well find another woman to create a family with. Or maybe your wife finally changes her mind, but you cannot hope on this as just about everything is indicating that she doesnt want to have a future with you.

You are getting this impression because I've spent most of this thread talking about the negative aspects of the marriage.

I will provide a list of reasons why it is not a "marriage in name only" and why it has value. I didn't do this earlier because it seems overly simplistic to try and use words to describe it. What I feel towards her (and what she feels or felt towards me) is not something you can really put into words accurately. But here goes:

- Before she received her visa, we lived in separate countries and I could still trust her 100% to not cheat on me, etc. (no, I am not being naive when I say this, although I can see why someone might assume I am if they've never met her personally).

- My relationship with her was 100x closer than my relationship with anyone else, including friends and family. We had tons of inside jokes and terms that we would use with each other that were only understandable to us. We would even joke about how if other people heard the way we talk to each other, they would assume we were idiots.

- When I would talk to her, it felt like I was just thinking out loud (as opposed to talking to someone). I'm not sure if that makes any sense the way I'm explaining it, but it is something I have only experienced with one other person, and that person is a close family member I grew up with since I was 3 years old.

- When I saw her last June (I showed up unannounced -- i.e. stalked her -- at a doctor's appointment after 4 months of almost no contact), she could not hide the fact that she was happy to see me and immediately we were engaging with each other just like old times (of course we addressed the issues of our separation, my bad behavior, and what I was doing to change). We spent hours together and it was not awkward at all. Afterwards, SHE texted ME and asked to see me again. When I saw her again, I held her hand and told her I wanted her back and her body language told me she was 100% open to the possibility.

- She has not filed for a divorce, dated other men, or told me not to contact her anymore.

- She has always come back to me every other time she has left (even though I'll admit this time feels different).

Also, she would never have left me "in order to find a higher-value man." I could have worked minimum wage my whole life and she would have stayed with me provided that I didn't do drugs or behave violently (not that she would have been happy about me being poor, but she would not have left me).

I know for a fact that if I was able to locate her like I did last June (or even talk to her on the phone), she would at the very least give me the time of day. That is precisely what makes this so frustrating.

If I knew she was indifferent towards me, had zero attraction to me, wanted a higher-value man, etc., it would be 100x easier for me to get over her.

Her behavior is motivated by her anger towards me, her pride, and her belief that I will never change. She is also very depressed herself and she blames me for it. Her attitude is DEFINITELY NOT one of indifference towards me and desire to find someone better.

What she feels in her heart (deep emotional connection to me) contradicts what she tells herself rationally (Rob is bad news. My parents warned me to stay away from him. I can't let him get away with everything he did to me. Etc. etc.). This is why she reacts negatively when I write to her (which she analyzes rationally) but she reacts a lot more positively when she sees my face or hears my voice (which speaks to her innermost feelings and emotions). This is also why last summer she would turn me down if I invited her to dinner and a movie (claiming "I don't want to be in a relationship with you after all you did to me") but at the same time she would allow me to take her by the hand and tell her how much she meant to me, with her body language showing she still felt a strong connection to me.

Sorry for the long post, but I just felt like I needed to clarify that.

I appreciate your responses and I agree with everything you said in regards to God and religion.

It's just that you said yourself that you have never been married or experienced such a close relationship with a woman. A lot of people seem to assume that male-female relationships are transactional by nature and that the only thing that matters is the other person's "value" when in reality, with me and my wife, we cared about each other like family.

It is like if I had a child who grew to hate me and wanted no contact with me. If anybody told me "Forget about him. Go out and have/adopt another child to replace him." that would sound ridiculous to me. Even if my child was serious about never wanting to see me again, the notion of replacing him would still seem ridiculous.

Just to clarify, I am not disagreeing with your opinion that I need to focus on God for God's sake and be detached and outcome independent, only with your assertion that mine is a "marriage in name only" and the implication that my wife is indifferent towards me and that I can/should eventually replace her with another woman.

P.S. You mention talking to a priest, and I actually did talk to my priest yesterday about this. He told me to focus on my duties (which right now are school and church) and to trust in God that the situation with my wife will resolve itself on His time. He told me "It will get resolved on God's time, not yours. In 10 years, you might have a beautiful Catholic family with your wife, but you have to fix yourself and your soul first." or something to that effect. (Not that he was guaranteeing any outcomes, just saying that God does things on His time and not mine).
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2020 02:31 PM by Rob Banks.)
03-02-2020 02:06 PM
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Post: #144
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
So I was talking to a friend about all this yesterday and he brought up the fact that it is possible for my wife to still love me and have deep feelings for me but still not ever want a relationship.

He compared it to a situation where a father abuses his son and the child grows to hate the father. The father then reforms himself and tries to rebuild the relationship with the son. The son forgives the father and grows to love him again, but still does not want any sort of father-son relationship (or any contact for that matter).

Does this make any sense?
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2020 03:43 PM by Rob Banks.)
03-05-2020 03:41 PM
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TheBadGuy Offline
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Post: #145
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
Rob,

I did not read through the whole post but did read through a good chunk of it. First off, sorry man. Sounds like a rough situation. I will give my 2 cents. I think that perhaps you are over thinking certain aspects of this and aspects of HER thinking and HER actions. You need to focus on things you can do/control. You are going to drive yourself mad.

- You say you know WHY she left and that she is not seeing other people - how do you know that if you did 30 days of no contact? I am not saying that she is, but there is a difference between KNOWING something and hoping desperately for something to be true.
- You stalked her... You can't do that man. You cannot devote your life to following her around and make getting her back your life's goal. Your goals should be something tangible about bettering yourself or getting closer with God. The BEST way to ensure you do not get her back is by making it your overt goal. It makes you seem weak to her.
- She talks to you so poorly/disrespectfully and you seem to not stand up for yourself and let her get away with it
- Work on yourself man. It has been said here many times. Do not make changes for her though, make them for yourself.

I wish you the best of luck, friend. I will continue to follow this thread and check in on your updates. I know the feeling that you have right now, but you need to work on getting over that feeling. The state of longing for something/someone and caring about it more than yourself when that something may not work out is a miserable state to be in. Try to get out of that.
03-06-2020 07:40 AM
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Easy_C Offline
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Post: #146
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
In my (albeit limited) experience with this kind of person, I've found that what matters to them the most is family impressions.

A: the weak behavior makes actual improvement impossible and it's kind of hard to have a healthy relationship with any girl who inspires simp behavior. A huge part of my my marriage works is that my wife isn't like the kind of emotional, intense, rollercoaster experience that makes guys simp. Instead being with her is to the emotions what being curled up in a cozy cabin, in front of a fireplace, with a warm mug of hot buttered rum is to the body.


B: I don't know if this is possible, but if you can figure out how to get over the simp behavior then what would make sense is to figure out from the family what they would want to see in order to believe in you. The importance of them approving can't be overstated. Not only do you get more enthusiastic support in times of need but it makes a difference to the relationship in my case that her mother and siblings have a lot of respect to me. I even get along with some of them well enough that on the last visit me and all her brothers were sitting around playing board games for hours.
03-06-2020 11:45 AM
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Post: #147
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
(03-06-2020 11:45 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  In my (albeit limited) experience with this kind of person, I've found that what matters to them the most is family impressions.
...

This is absolutely 100% true for her.

As I said earlier in the thread, she is very close with both her parents (who are very conservative and traditional).

For years, I had terrible behavior but her parents were unaware of it and so she never dreamed of leaving me. That was until her father said the magic words: "I think you would be happier without him." The next day, she left me ON THE SPOT. Of course, she later came back to me, but I haven't had any contact with her family since then.

Unfortunately, that bridge seems to be burned beyond repair.

Even when my wife moved in with me last year, she did not tell her parents. She would shush me whenever she was on the phone with them because she was embarrassed about them finding out she was with me.

They eventually found out when she finally moved back to South America with them because she couldn't take living with me anymore. I literally drove her out of the country and she moved back home with her parents. Now, she moved back to the US but she lives alone and her parents pay her rent (which is very expensive, but they are doing it to keep her from moving back with me).

Her father believes I beat her. I never have, but she led him to believe that and now that's what he thinks. (I have been violent but never hit her).

She has warned me that her father will report me for harassment if I ever try to contact him.

It is actually very sad. Aside from the influence that they have over her, I actually respect her parents a lot. They are good people who for years welcomed me into their family with open arms. And now they think I'm a monster.

I have thought about maybe going to talk to them the next time I am in South America, but it is very possible they will just call the police as soon as they see me (or at the very least tell me to fuck off).
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2020 01:07 PM by Rob Banks.)
03-06-2020 12:55 PM
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nuevayork Offline
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Post: #148
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
Just move on already.
03-06-2020 08:42 PM
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Rob Banks Offline
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Post: #149
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
So in my previous post here (2 posts above this one), I explain why the opinion of my wife's family is so important to her.

A few days ago, I found out that she moved back in with her parents in South America (due to her kidney transplant, she has a lowered immune system which makes her way more susceptible to coronavirus).

So far, she has stopped responding to my messages altogether. She didn't even respond when I asked about her health in regards to the virus.

Would it be advisable at some point to maybe try to talk to her family (maybe not right now, but at some point in the near future)?

I don't seem to be getting anywhere by messaging her. If I could get her family to forgive me and stop seeing me as a bad guy, that would go a long way in getting her to feel comfortable talking to me again.

Her parents treated me like part of the family for 8 years. They rejected me after my wife told them I had been violent. However, they believe I beat her (I didn't), and they have no idea that my behavior was mostly caused by a drug habit.

They are very reasonable people. If I can explain to them that I never beat their daughter, and that my violent and irresponsible behavior was caused by a drug habit that I have since overcome, and I explain how much their daughter means to me, it is likely they will be understanding and forgiving.

On the other hand, I have not spoken to her family in over 3 years, and the last I heard, they just wanted to be rid of me. If I call them out of the blue, their reaction will probably be "What the fuck? I thought we got rid of you years ago. Your crazy ass is still obsessed with our daughter?"

I know that, based on what I wrote in the "God pill" thread recently, you guys will probably tell me to worry about fixing myself first. If I ever speak to her family, it is obviously better if I am doing it from a position of strength (which I'll admit is not the case right now). I guess what I am asking is, should I ever consider speaking to her family if nothing else works? And if so, how should I go about doing it?

The reason I am thinking about this now is that she recently moved back in with her family and stopped responding to my messages altogether (probably because she feels weird talking to me in secret while living under her father's roof). It seems like the only way to get to her might be to go through her family.
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2020 08:24 PM by Rob Banks.)
03-20-2020 08:14 PM
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etwsake Offline
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Post: #150
RE: My wife left me and it's my fault
You really don't seem to be understanding that it's completely over.

She doesn't love you. She's not coming back. You will never be together and be happy with her.

Is this your first real break up? I can understand what you're going through if it is. It might take years for it to truly sink in.

Read my next sentence carefully and slowly, a few times......

She doesn't like you.

How did that make you feel? Did you want to reach in to the computer and choke me, even though I'm just an anonymous stranger? Are you filled with rage, hurt, denial? Mostly denial, I'd wager. I know that feeling.

"Of course she LIKES me...she's my wife!" you think to yourself.

I'm sorry man. But no. If she liked you....if she cared about you....if you were in any way important to her.....she'd be with you.

Women aren't like us. They can just turn it off like a light switch. Even after being together for years, they can just wake up one day and think "I don't like this guy any more." and they walk away and never give it a second thought. And we're wired differently, cause we just devoted years of our life to this person, and we just can't accept that it all meant nothing in the end.

I'm sorry for what you're going through but you're going to be utterly miserable for the rest of your life until you accept the fact that she simply doesn't like you any more. You no longer matter to her. Swallow that bitter pill and start to put your new life together. A life that no longer includes her.
03-21-2020 01:19 AM
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