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The California thread
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budoslavic Offline
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Post: #151
RE: The California thread
Saw these tweets going around in Twitter-sphere.

11-11-2019 10:24 AM
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Easy_C Offline
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Post: #152
RE: The California thread
(11-11-2019 09:47 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  
(11-11-2019 08:31 AM)Dr Mantis Toboggan Wrote:  
(11-11-2019 02:22 AM)Sword and Board Wrote:  
(11-10-2019 11:47 PM)TigOlBitties Wrote:  I live in Seattle and it might as well be California. The scenery is amazing, but it's an overpriced dump and full of some of the most brainwashed leftists I've ever met. Same as Portland. A lot of these looney lefties are from California or the Northeast though. The tech industry's influence is making it even worse.

There are still normal people here, and the more rural parts of Washington and Oregon are amazing like you said. Completely different than Seattle. Idaho, Western Montana and Alaska look amazing as well.

The Northwest US and British Columbia is one of the most beautiful parts of the world, and it makes my blood boil to see these Marxist cocksuckers destroy it.

I remember reading about some white nationalist movement years ago wanting the northwest and to separate from America. I guess the (((globalists))) caught wind and made sure it got globohomo'd.

Kind of like all those Nigerian and sub-Saharan refugee's getting plonked in the most lilly white areas they could find.

Nigerian immigrants in the US actually tend to be very high achieving, better educated and higher income on average than white Americans IIRC, and have a reputation for being hard working and family oriented. A lot of them are in medicine or engineering. Of course there aren't a ton if them relatively speaking and it's not that easy or cheap to get from there to here so I think we tend to get the best and brightest making their way over here.

Funny thing, if you ever want to hear a rant that would make a KKK member go "cmon, aren't you being a little hard on them?" ask a west African immigrant in the US what they think of American blacks.

That worked only with the previous bunch before the mass globhomo-UN resettlement progams which take in the averages. The ones from West Africa coming to the US outperformed because they were mostly well-off educted high-IQ Africans. A full high-IQ African nation could rival with any Western or Asian country, but the averages are just not there yet.

What they need is a 1,000 years of Christianity as Jones prescribes, but I don't think he understands why. It isn't just because it "teaches you how to work" but because a Christian Theocracy eliminates most severely dysgenic practices from society.

In my experience the high end of people from that African background are terrifyingly intelligent but you need a Christian moral framework on society for that to propagate.
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2019 11:49 AM by Easy_C.)
11-11-2019 11:46 AM
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Yatagan Offline
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Post: #153
RE: The California thread
(11-11-2019 06:55 AM)VNvet Wrote:  
(11-11-2019 05:07 AM)Simeon_Strangelight Wrote:  
(11-11-2019 02:40 AM)Yatagan Wrote:  
(11-10-2019 08:57 AM)VNvet Wrote:  
(11-09-2019 11:32 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  Same as Americans laughing at Europeans re: the migrant invasion over there.

Based on the numbers I'm looking at, the US is going to be Mexicanised looooong before Europe is Africanised.

The parts of the US that directly border Mexico are already fully Mexicanized along with Miami-Dade county being fully Cubanized. We can probably hold the rural Pacific Northwest and other rural northern parts of the country though.

Cubans are only about half the LATAM pop in Miami-Dade. It's more akin a LATAM version of Bosnia or the caucasus than an extension of Mexico like swaths of the U.S. southwest have become.

Cubans are an outlier - not only are they more Spaniard mixed, but they are often Republicans and right-wing - usually they are more radically anti-marxist than average Anglo-Americans. They are not representative of most "Hispanics".

That applied to the first big wave in the 60s. Most of them were from the criollo and castizo ruling class and hated communism. Not many of them are left in Cuba.

The Cubans that have come to the US ever since the boatlift are exactly what the Cubans in the 60s were running from. And that demographic is growing.

Yeah, the bulk of the white flight and anti-leftist emigre exodus from Cuba has already happened and what we're getting now are your run of the mill shitlib turd worlders and the younger generations in miami-dade are more off your typical dem types(i'm QUITE the outlier).
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2019 04:39 PM by Yatagan.)
11-11-2019 04:36 PM
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TigOlBitties Offline
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Post: #154
RE: The California thread
Every younger Cuban I met in Miami/Fort Lauderdale was a leftist. South Florida in general is pretty Democrat. Not California nutty, but still bad. The rest of Florida is much better.
11-11-2019 07:02 PM
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Diocletian Offline
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Post: #155
RE: The California thread
(10-27-2019 10:36 PM)Roosh Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 09:40 PM)kosko Wrote:  
(10-26-2019 04:16 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  I don't get why power lines suddenly became dangerous. There have been storms and dry seasons forever and never these kind of mega fires in Sonoma County. Is it because the equipment is deteriorating? Or the weather is getting more intense? P,G&E always had power lines snaking through trees all over the place and you never heard of them causing fires. It was always kids playing with matches, fireworks, or careless hikers and campers doing stuff. What is going on?

From my understanding it is due to California's over zealous environment protection laws and tree regulations which makes controlled burning and removal of trees difficult.

Yes ask any forest firefighter and he'll say the same.

Part of the problem with California is that large parts of the state are covered with a thick blanket of a type of vegetation called chaparral. This stuff gets to about 6 or 8 feet high max, but its very fast growing and gets bone-dry when the weather gets hot. Its a completely natural tinderbox and the only way to cheaply clear it out is via brush fires. Here's a small roundup of articles about the Laguna Beach wildfires of 1993: https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilo...llery.html Wildfires are a totally natural feature of many parts of California and are one of the risks of living there, like tornadoes in Kansas.

People complain about the high cost of living there now, but if the local governments did their jobs and had that stuff mechanically cleared out it would be even higher. The hills and numerous canyons make it real expensive to do that.

Smokey the Bear will go down as one of the most idiotic policies ever put forth by the US government, right up there with the low fat diet. I grew up in SoCal and lived there for almost 30 years. I spent a lot time hiking there, from the local hills to the Sierra Nevadas. I live in Wyoming now, but the Rockies here and in Colorado have a similar problem as the Sierras: the bark beetle. Healthy forests in the Western US have fairly regular but low intensity fires which destroy weak or infested trees (plus the bugs infesting them) and leave the strong ones. Decades of fire suppression have interrupted this cycle and allowed the bark beetle to flourish which has left many millions of dead trees all throughout the Sierras and Rockies. Right now there is a massive inferno just waiting to explode here that will make all previous fires look miniscule by comparison.
11-11-2019 08:06 PM
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Diocletian Offline
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Post: #156
RE: The California thread
(10-09-2019 05:33 AM)SomeOneSomeWhere Wrote:  Reminds me of:

The California electricity crisis, also known as the Western U.S. energy crisis of 2000 and 2001, was a situation in which the U.S. state of California had a shortage of electricity supply caused by market manipulations and capped retail electricity prices.[5] The state suffered from multiple large-scale blackouts, one of the state's largest energy companies collapsed, and the economic fall-out greatly harmed Governor Gray Davis' standing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California...ity_crisis

California is a failing state propped up by propaganda to lure in harpies, narcissists and gay guys thirsty for the movie star lifestyle.

In reality they live in cramped housing surrounded by hostile mexicans, non stop traffic jams and nickle and dimed for everything while barely making ends meet - propping up the welfare state while chasing pipedreams.

I remember the crisis, I was living in SoCal at the time. It was one of the final nails in the coffin of the Gray Davis governorship that led to his recall and the election of Schwarzenegger. After that happened a lot of opinion writers were complaining about "too much democracy" with some using that exact phrase. During the run-up to the recall Davis signed a bill allowing illegal immigrants to get drivers licenses, which was obvious vote pandering to save his butt. I think that was overturned by the courts, but I don't recall.
11-11-2019 08:52 PM
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Roosh Offline
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Post: #157
RE: The California thread

Puke

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11-11-2019 10:15 PM
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Sherman Offline
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Post: #158
RE: The California thread
I don't know if this is going to spread to California or not, but there is already serious water rationing that is about to occur in Baja California.

Tijuana and Rosarito to ration water supply for the next two months

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/new...two-months

Rico... Sauve....
11-11-2019 10:43 PM
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Post: #159
RE: The California thread
(11-11-2019 10:15 PM)Roosh Wrote:  
Puke

I have seen these people in San Diego. They aren't just homeless. They are mentally ill or even schizophrenic. I have seen some bizarre things. Like people walking around like they have literally just come out of a hospital.

Rico... Sauve....
11-11-2019 10:49 PM
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Sherman Offline
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Post: #160
RE: The California thread
Leftist policies destroying water supply.

"Instead of building water infrastructure to increase supplies of water, public employee unions want to see tax revenues pour into their pockets and into the pension funds. High-tech billionaires want contracts to build “smart” appliances and monitoring systems to enforce water rationing. Extreme environmentalists, and the trial lawyers who get incredibly wealthy representing their organizations, want more legal bases upon which to file lucrative lawsuits. Sadly, major corporate agribusinesses often acquiesce to this abuse of residents because they’ve decided that a bigger slice of a smaller pie is all they can hope for from this legislature."

https://californiapolicycenter.org/perma...alifornia/

Rico... Sauve....
11-11-2019 11:05 PM
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Monty_Brogan Offline
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Post: #161
RE: The California thread
(11-11-2019 10:49 PM)Sherman Wrote:  
(11-11-2019 10:15 PM)Roosh Wrote:  
Puke

I have seen these people in San Diego. They aren't just homeless. They are mentally ill or even schizophrenic. I have seen some bizarre things. Like people walking around like they have literally just come out of a hospital.

Bullshit. That’s black on white crime full stop. But nobody cares. They either have white guilt or just care too much for local nfl team to be worried about such things.
11-11-2019 11:46 PM
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Sword and Board Offline
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Post: #162
RE: The California thread
(11-11-2019 08:31 AM)Dr Mantis Toboggan Wrote:  
(11-11-2019 02:22 AM)Sword and Board Wrote:  
(11-10-2019 11:47 PM)TigOlBitties Wrote:  I live in Seattle and it might as well be California. The scenery is amazing, but it's an overpriced dump and full of some of the most brainwashed leftists I've ever met. Same as Portland. A lot of these looney lefties are from California or the Northeast though. The tech industry's influence is making it even worse.

There are still normal people here, and the more rural parts of Washington and Oregon are amazing like you said. Completely different than Seattle. Idaho, Western Montana and Alaska look amazing as well.

The Northwest US and British Columbia is one of the most beautiful parts of the world, and it makes my blood boil to see these Marxist cocksuckers destroy it.

I remember reading about some white nationalist movement years ago wanting the northwest and to separate from America. I guess the (((globalists))) caught wind and made sure it got globohomo'd.

Kind of like all those Nigerian and sub-Saharan refugee's getting plonked in the most lilly white areas they could find.

Nigerian immigrants in the US actually tend to be very high achieving, better educated and higher income on average than white Americans IIRC, and have a reputation for being hard working and family oriented. A lot of them are in medicine or engineering. Of course there aren't a ton if them relatively speaking and it's not that easy or cheap to get from there to here so I think we tend to get the best and brightest making their way over here.

Funny thing, if you ever want to hear a rant that would make a KKK member go "cmon, aren't you being a little hard on them?" ask a west African immigrant in the US what they think of American blacks.

Seems I mistook Nigerians for Somalian refugees.





The powers that be seemingly want to spare no white communities from diversification.

Anyone with some critical foresight can see the disastrous future ramifications of this when the demographics shift further.
11-12-2019 05:20 AM
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Simeon_Strangelight Offline
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Post: #163
RE: The California thread
(11-11-2019 11:46 AM)Easy_C Wrote:  What they need is a 1,000 years of Christianity as Jones prescribes, but I don't think he understands why. It isn't just because it "teaches you how to work" but because a Christian Theocracy eliminates most severely dysgenic practices from society.

In my experience the high end of people from that African background are terrifyingly intelligent but you need a Christian moral framework on society for that to propagate.

I have had those discussions with black RVF guys here as well and I fully agree - if you rounded up the smartest 20 mio. native Africans and put them into a country - any country even the one with the lowest recourses, then you would get a Western/Asian/adjacent country that is relatively safe and prosperous.

There are ways to create an eugenic system. Christianity was like that due to multiple factors - ban of inbreeding (initially even going back 10 generations), marriage only for men who had their shit together (work, property etc.), rich successful men having mistresses, criminals getting brutally executed early on in life with no progeny.

The Chinese had a similar system which produced their higher IQs - rich successful men for a long time had multiple wives, unsuccesful had zero, then they had the stable marriage patterns for the majority.

Even the Muslim system would be eugenic in theory if it were not for habitual and scripture-promoted inbreeding. Also you cannot overdo polygamy or the country becomes unstable. Only the top 0,1% can do it without destabilizing the entire boat.

How you do it is up for debate, but applied stable family-and-fatherhood-strengthening eugenic structure would benefit Africa far more than any financial help sent over by the globohomos. But that would mean that you would have to accept the truth and then desire to change it. The elite will not do it, because then their equality-Bolshevik attack against the West gets torpedoed and they can potentially get a dangerous smart black opposition down the line. I do believe that a high-IQ black nation would be inherently more rebellious and freedom-loving than an Asian one. So there is another reason for the globomos to keep them that way and tell them that Whitey is responsible for any perceived or real gap.

The result is what you can see on the TV report that Roosh posted.
11-12-2019 06:24 AM
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Cr33pin Offline
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Post: #164
Rainbow RE: The California thread
Manhunt is on after two homeless men were struck with an ARROW in a San Francisco Bay park by an archer on a purple bicycle
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(This post was last modified: 11-12-2019 07:37 PM by Cr33pin.)
11-12-2019 07:28 PM
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Dr. Howard Offline
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Post: #165
RE: The California thread
(11-11-2019 08:06 PM)Diocletian Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 10:36 PM)Roosh Wrote:  
(10-27-2019 09:40 PM)kosko Wrote:  
(10-26-2019 04:16 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  I don't get why power lines suddenly became dangerous. There have been storms and dry seasons forever and never these kind of mega fires in Sonoma County. Is it because the equipment is deteriorating? Or the weather is getting more intense? P,G&E always had power lines snaking through trees all over the place and you never heard of them causing fires. It was always kids playing with matches, fireworks, or careless hikers and campers doing stuff. What is going on?

From my understanding it is due to California's over zealous environment protection laws and tree regulations which makes controlled burning and removal of trees difficult.

Yes ask any forest firefighter and he'll say the same.

Part of the problem with California is that large parts of the state are covered with a thick blanket of a type of vegetation called chaparral. This stuff gets to about 6 or 8 feet high max, but its very fast growing and gets bone-dry when the weather gets hot. Its a completely natural tinderbox and the only way to cheaply clear it out is via brush fires. Here's a small roundup of articles about the Laguna Beach wildfires of 1993: https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilo...llery.html Wildfires are a totally natural feature of many parts of California and are one of the risks of living there, like tornadoes in Kansas.

People complain about the high cost of living there now, but if the local governments did their jobs and had that stuff mechanically cleared out it would be even higher. The hills and numerous canyons make it real expensive to do that.

Smokey the Bear will go down as one of the most idiotic policies ever put forth by the US government, right up there with the low fat diet. I grew up in SoCal and lived there for almost 30 years. I spent a lot time hiking there, from the local hills to the Sierra Nevadas. I live in Wyoming now, but the Rockies here and in Colorado have a similar problem as the Sierras: the bark beetle. Healthy forests in the Western US have fairly regular but low intensity fires which destroy weak or infested trees (plus the bugs infesting them) and leave the strong ones. Decades of fire suppression have interrupted this cycle and allowed the bark beetle to flourish which has left many millions of dead trees all throughout the Sierras and Rockies. Right now there is a massive inferno just waiting to explode here that will make all previous fires look miniscule by comparison.

I would have to disagree.

California is burning because a bunch of hippies wanted to save an owl and hug trees.

Environmentalist legal challenges on federal lands by environmentalists in the late 90s, early 2000s essentially stopped all logging, and fuel reduction in the Sierras.

Interior California and Washington state had heavy duty logging operations going on well up through the 80s...which was still 30 years into the Smokey Bear campaigns. Logging did a 'good enough' job of offsetting fire requirements.

However, come the "spotted owl" enviromentalists to logging protests on the west coast and virtually all logging was shut down on federal lands. This led to forest fuels buildup and fires that exist today. The same policies led to fuel buildup in Northern Minnesota and Wisconsin, the forests that havent' burned, are beetle and disease killed like you mentioned and just look awful.

Here is an article about environmentalists using the spotted owl to shut down logging in the southwest in the 90s https://www.hcn.org/issues/127/4040

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
11-12-2019 07:55 PM
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PapayaTapper Away
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Post: #166
RE: The California thread
(11-11-2019 10:43 PM)Sherman Wrote:  I don't know if this is going to spread to California or not, but there is already serious water rationing that is about to occur in Baja California.

Tijuana and Rosarito to ration water supply for the next two months

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/new...two-months

^Nah...the rainfall of winters of 2016-17 and then 2018-19 replenished all the snow caps and reservoirs to capacity...and then some

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11-12-2019 08:06 PM
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Post: #167
RE: The California thread
(11-12-2019 07:55 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  California is burning because a bunch of hippies wanted to save an owl and hug trees.






(11-12-2019 07:55 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Logging did a 'good enough' job of offsetting fire requirements.




I love the sound of chainsaws in the morning.

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11-13-2019 03:00 AM
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Post: #168
RE: The California thread
(11-13-2019 03:00 AM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  
(11-12-2019 07:55 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  California is burning because a bunch of hippies wanted to save an owl and hug trees.


(11-12-2019 07:55 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Logging did a 'good enough' job of offsetting fire requirements.




I love the sound of chainsaws in the morning.

^ staged but hilarious. The tree huggers figured out a better way to stop logging than to squat in the trees though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking

Putting spikes into trees that will shatter chainsaws and sawmill blades, killing or injuring loggers and millworkers when cut. Like anything well intentioned by hippies it later turns against them.

In Ontario, there was a large forest fire in an old growth area that had been tree spiked decades earlier. Forest fire fighters cutting fire breaks hit one and pulled out of the area because of the danger. The forest burned.

There are likely areas in CA that wildland fire fighters won't touch because of the same thing.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
11-13-2019 12:45 PM
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Post: #169
RE: The California thread
(11-13-2019 12:45 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(11-13-2019 03:00 AM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  
(11-12-2019 07:55 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  California is burning because a bunch of hippies wanted to save an owl and hug trees.


(11-12-2019 07:55 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Logging did a 'good enough' job of offsetting fire requirements.




I love the sound of chainsaws in the morning.

^ staged but hilarious. The tree huggers figured out a better way to stop logging than to squat in the trees though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking

Putting spikes into trees that will shatter chainsaws and sawmill blades, killing or injuring loggers and millworkers when cut. Like anything well intentioned by hippies it later turns against them.

In Ontario, there was a large forest fire in an old growth area that had been tree spiked decades earlier. Forest fire fighters cutting fire breaks hit one and pulled out of the area because of the danger. The forest burned.

There are likely areas in CA that wildland fire fighters won't touch because of the same thing.

Sources?

This sounds like it comes straight from a timber company PR packet.

Tree spiking was not standard practice for environmentalists, and was roundly condemned by all but a tiny fringe, and that was the early nineties. Haven't heard much about it since then, although it was extremely useful to the rapacious timber companies.

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

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11-13-2019 01:12 PM
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Post: #170
RE: The California thread
(11-13-2019 01:12 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  
(11-13-2019 12:45 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  
(11-13-2019 03:00 AM)Spectrumwalker Wrote:  
(11-12-2019 07:55 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  California is burning because a bunch of hippies wanted to save an owl and hug trees.


(11-12-2019 07:55 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Logging did a 'good enough' job of offsetting fire requirements.




I love the sound of chainsaws in the morning.

^ staged but hilarious. The tree huggers figured out a better way to stop logging than to squat in the trees though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking

Putting spikes into trees that will shatter chainsaws and sawmill blades, killing or injuring loggers and millworkers when cut. Like anything well intentioned by hippies it later turns against them.

In Ontario, there was a large forest fire in an old growth area that had been tree spiked decades earlier. Forest fire fighters cutting fire breaks hit one and pulled out of the area because of the danger. The forest burned.

There are likely areas in CA that wildland fire fighters won't touch because of the same thing.

Sources?

This sounds like it comes straight from a timber company PR packet.

Tree spiking was not standard practice for environmentalists, and was roundly condemned by all but a tiny fringe, and that was the early nineties. Haven't heard much about it since then, although it was extremely useful to the rapacious timber companies.

Your designation of Rapacious Timber Companies displays your bias. Fortunately as a forester for many years, I have the opposite bias.

Regarding examples of tree spiking, and its ongoing practice.

This is the 'famous' US incident https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/l...da6f44e7a/

This is one of the Ontario Canada incidents
http://temagami.nativeweb.org/temagami-chronology.htm

This is one from British Columbia
https://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/a-litt...quot-sound

This is one from Minnesota
https://www.walkermn.com/news/one-arrest...f4df1.html

Another one from British Columbia
http://www.climbkamloops.ca/?p=95

One from Indiana
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tree-spiking-arrest/

Oregon
https://www.rt.com/usa/346434-tree-spike...st-oregon/

Tree spiking is still going on.

The fire example comes from a colleague of mine in Canada when I worked in natural resources. He was a career wildfire fighter, not a forest industry lobbyist. I had also heard that the government and forestry companies mapped out areas where tree spikes were found as safety concern areas.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
11-13-2019 02:16 PM
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debeguiled Offline
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Post: #171
RE: The California thread
(11-13-2019 02:16 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Your designation of Rapacious Timber Companies displays your bias. Fortunately as a forester for many years, I have the opposite bias.

No bias. Your view is the accepted one by all and sundry. Restating it without sources sounds like forest industry PR. Not bias. Fact.

I'm not a forester, though I have friends who used to be lumberjacks but were driven out not by environmentalists, but by the mechanization of the timber industry, that is why they lost their jobs, and the selling of old growth trees directly overseas, so killing the cottage industries that relied on logging.

This I remember from the 90's as well, so the sources are long gone, I'm afraid.

Most of your sources, as I indicated, are from the 90's too though. Let's not forget that. The last one, while technically true, actually says that the environmental group issued a warning where the spikes were so loggers wouldn't be injured, so not on the terrorist level you are claiming, though not justifiable by any means.

I am not saying all logging companies are rapacious, or that loggers themselves are the problem. As I remember it, it had more to do with how the companies got structured and manipulated by Wall Street. The corporate raiders got turned loose on the forests.

When I lived in Oregon in the 90's there were a lot of environmental group around, and not fringe hippie sorts, but the kind whose editorials were published in the NYT and Christian Science Monitor.

The tree spikers were outlaws, and most of the committed tree huggers engaged in political action that put their own lives at risk, not the lives of others, and it was mostly rhetoric and peaceful protest.

No one was against logging in general or saving every single leaf.

It wasn't the idiotic issue of saving all trees, but of protecting the last 3% or so of old growth forest, as well as ending the clear cutting that destroyed creeks, which also destroyed the salmon runs, etc..

I appreciate you adding sources, as I was unaware of what was going on in Canada.

That said, the logging industry did engage in a full court rhetorical press trying to make any environmental concerns seem like idiotic naive conspiracy theories, and this is where astro-turfing, that is, fake grass roots groups really started to take off.

They had the money, they had the media, and so reckless tales of tree spiking was used to delegitimize any environmental concerns the general population had. Just like how the CIA invented the term "conspiracy theory" to make people shut up about Kennedy's assassination.

They won the culture war on that one, and so the legend of every day Joes trying to earn a living and being maimed and killed by crazy eco-nuts became how it was all defined in the popular imagination.

It's a shame, because there could have been healthy forests and responsible logging and work for everyone until the big corporate guys got ahold of the situation.

I will close from a quote from your own source:

Quote:While anti-logging activists are often branded by the mainstream media and the US justice system as “eco-terrorists,” research suggests the term was developed in the 1970s by PR firms in order to demonize those trying to stop the logging industry from cutting down America’s ancient forests.

Some environmental activists renounced the use of tree spikes after one mill worker in California may have been seriously injured in an accident nearly 30 years ago, but no other incidents have ever been reported.

“That sig BTW is a very asinine anti-family anti-parent quote. You live in a country where 40% of children grow up without a biological father, yet somehow “the greatest burden a child must bear is the unlived life of its parents”? Sorry but this is fruity Boomer nonsense.”

911
(This post was last modified: 11-13-2019 02:46 PM by debeguiled.)
11-13-2019 02:45 PM
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Post: #172
RE: The California thread
(11-13-2019 02:45 PM)debeguiled Wrote:  
(11-13-2019 02:16 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  Your designation of Rapacious Timber Companies displays your bias. Fortunately as a forester for many years, I have the opposite bias.

No bias. Your view is the accepted one by all and sundry. Restating it without sources sounds like forest industry PR. Not bias. Fact.

I'm not a forester, though I have friends who used to be lumberjacks but were driven out not by environmentalists, but by the mechanization of the timber industry, that is why they lost their jobs, and the selling of old growth trees directly overseas, so killing the cottage industries that relied on logging.

This I remember from the 90's as well, so the sources are long gone, I'm afraid.

Most of your sources, as I indicated, are from the 90's too though. Let's not forget that. The last one, while technically true, actually says that the environmental group issued a warning where the spikes were so loggers wouldn't be injured, so not on the terrorist level you are claiming, though not justifiable by any means.

I am not saying all logging companies are rapacious, or that loggers themselves are the problem. As I remember it, it had more to do with how the companies got structured and manipulated by Wall Street. The corporate raiders got turned loose on the forests.

When I lived in Oregon in the 90's there were a lot of environmental group around, and not fringe hippie sorts, but the kind whose editorials were published in the NYT and Christian Science Monitor.

The tree spikers were outlaws, and most of the committed tree huggers engaged in political action that put their own lives at risk, not the lives of others, and it was mostly rhetoric and peaceful protest.

No one was against logging in general or saving every single leaf.

It wasn't the idiotic issue of saving all trees, but of protecting the last 3% or so of old growth forest, as well as ending the clear cutting that destroyed creeks, which also destroyed the salmon runs, etc..

I appreciate you adding sources, as I was unaware of what was going on in Canada.

That said, the logging industry did engage in a full court rhetorical press trying to make any environmental concerns seem like idiotic naive conspiracy theories, and this is where astro-turfing, that is, fake grass roots groups really started to take off.

They had the money, they had the media, and so reckless tales of tree spiking was used to delegitimize any environmental concerns the general population had. Just like how the CIA invented the term "conspiracy theory" to make people shut up about Kennedy's assassination.

They won the culture war on that one, and so the legend of every day Joes trying to earn a living and being maimed and killed by crazy eco-nuts became how it was all defined in the popular imagination.

It's a shame, because there could have been healthy forests and responsible logging and work for everyone until the big corporate guys got ahold of the situation.

I will close from a quote from your own source:

Quote:While anti-logging activists are often branded by the mainstream media and the US justice system as “eco-terrorists,” research suggests the term was developed in the 1970s by PR firms in order to demonize those trying to stop the logging industry from cutting down America’s ancient forests.

Some environmental activists renounced the use of tree spikes after one mill worker in California may have been seriously injured in an accident nearly 30 years ago, but no other incidents have ever been reported.

I think we are sidebar-ing the thread so I'll keep it short. I appreciate the perspective and think that we've got a separation of time and geography as well.

My main experience with environmental protestors was during my time in Canada, and my time in the US with forestry was bureaucratic.

I think that logging protests slowly migrated north. Once victories were achieved or contests died down they went north. Protests of logging in Clayqout sound and northern ontario were mid to late 90s, and then moved onto the entire Canadian boreal forest in the 2000s.

What CA and OR were getting in the late 80s was probably what we were getting in the early 2000s.

We'll disagree on the cause of logging employment on the west coast. I still think its the federal government caving to pressure. My contrast example is the US southeast, which still has a large and active forest industry, one of the differences being that the timberlands are privately held. Raw log exports on the west coast sure didn't help, but they are also legal in the southeast.

Why do the heathen rage and the people imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2:1 KJV
11-13-2019 06:48 PM
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RE: The California thread


11-16-2019 06:41 AM
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Post: #174
RE: The California thread
Popped up in my recommendations and I thought I should share:



11-20-2019 10:34 AM
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Post: #175
RE: The California thread
The feces is getting worse in California:

Quote:“It’s horrifying for people to step outside and see poop smeared all over the sidewalk, we know it’s getting worse.”

The City of San Francisco now has three public toilets available after 8 p.m. — located in Castro, Soma and the Tenderloin, but Supervisor Matt Haney said the city needs even more.

“We’ve seen a reduction in the number of reports of feces in the areas immediately around the pit stop bathrooms including the ones that are 24 hours,” Haney said. “We obviously need more. We need to expand the number of these bathrooms and the hours.”

The city also has a poop patrol, staff members who clean up human waste mostly in the Tenderloin, the district with the highest number of 311 calls for sidewalk cleanliness complaints.

Throughout the city, 311 has received more than 25,000 poop complaints this year alone.

“It’s a serious public health concern.”

https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/its-...cisco/amp/

Roosh
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12-16-2019 10:20 PM
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