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Are American Women Really That Bad?
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Kid Twist Offline
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
It comes down to niche to break the American individualism and lack of societal constraints. Add careerism, and you see why the incentives for men go way down --- working and careers take women out of their looks and fertility prime, raises their expectations, simultaneously not "needing" men until it's too late because the whole entering the workplace game has been played to the economy's (globalist and statist) endgame.

The issue with niche is that if you find a "religious" girl, she is still in the bad culture. And how many of those girls are truly devoted and out of the culture to a meaningful degree? Few.

No one wants to say it, but it comes down to selection pressures on women being very low when there is no dependence on men. Currently, there aren't many at all. Society is structured to take care of them, resource and safety wise. The problem is that we didn't evolve in that environment, so biology is still there but civilizational stability isn't because at least in the West, consumerism and the economics-over-everything mentalities put all the other desirable qualities to third tier. That same economy uber alles led to many other feedback reinforcers --- immigration, lower wages across the board, less social harmony, etc.

The amusing (and sad) thing is that the older you get, you paradoxically need a younger and younger wife, or it all makes less sense, since as a male you do better and are wiser, and what's the point otherwise? If you are solid and have resources and intelligence or wisdom, why would you get involved with someone unless to have a family with someone on that same page? Yet you are prompted by others to take the rapidly washed up off the shelves, even at your successful state. No, they wont' know anything about SMV being way higher for men post 30 and women a rapidly diminishing return. That would requite honesty about biology, not something en vogue right now.

The near entirety of human existence understood these biological laws of men and women. In the last 50 years, they suggest that we somehow changed and should just forget the past. The quintessential idiocy comes out (not that anyone really buys it) in slogans like "The future is female."

NPC: ... but modern people are "smarter"!. Yet somehow they can't figure out that we're here because of what our ancestors did before us, ummm forever. A sad truth; demon in the details.
(This post was last modified: 05-13-2019 11:19 PM by Kid Twist.)
05-13-2019 11:12 PM
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BlackFriar Away
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Post: #77
RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
If any one wants anything to change, they have to change. Do you let circumstances rule the outcome of your life? NOOO!!!!!
05-14-2019 02:08 AM
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
(05-07-2019 09:44 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  
(05-07-2019 09:28 AM)nomadiam Wrote:  Note: Living abroad, I haven't dated an american woman in over a decade but i'm thinking about taking the plunge again, which is why i'm bringing up the topic.

On the whole... Yes, they are some of the worst women in the world. That isn't to say good ones don't exist... it's just with American women you are almost always dating down in everything but looks.

I'm also going to say that I am about your age, and I never left the US. The cultural shift over the last 20 years has been very big. The girls you knew as a teen, simply don't exist anymore. They have been replaced with shallow narcissistic women who can and do justify all bad behavior with feminist rationale.

I have to agree with EndsExpect. American women keep getting worse every year. There are fewer and fewer attractive ones. Most are giants. I was just out an Internations social tonight hoping to meet a well traveled international girl. Impossible. I met many American women. All they talk about is their careers. I feel like they are trying to convince me to hire them. They may look good, but they have zero sex appeal. They're basically just men without dicks. They have zero desire to hook up with a guy, only to better their career. If all you want to hear about is work, then American chicks are great. Just don't call them "chicks" or "girls," they're women! American chicks are bad, but professional ones are the worst, you'll always be way less important than their careers.

To nomadiam, good luck! Let me know how you feel after being back in the USA for a year. How many good American women have you met?

(This post was last modified: 05-14-2019 10:25 PM by brianmark.)
05-14-2019 10:10 PM
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brianmark Offline
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
(05-13-2019 11:12 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  It comes down to niche to break the American individualism and lack of societal constraints. Add careerism, and you see why the incentives for men go way down --- working and careers take women out of their looks and fertility prime, raises their expectations, simultaneously not "needing" men until it's too late because the whole entering the workplace game has been played to the economy's (globalist and statist) endgame.

The issue with niche is that if you find a "religious" girl, she is still in the bad culture. And how many of those girls are truly devoted and out of the culture to a meaningful degree? Few.

No one wants to say it, but it comes down to selection pressures on women being very low when there is no dependence on men. Currently, there aren't many at all. Society is structured to take care of them, resource and safety wise. The problem is that we didn't evolve in that environment, so biology is still there but civilizational stability isn't because at least in the West, consumerism and the economics-over-everything mentalities put all the other desirable qualities to third tier. That same economy uber alles led to many other feedback reinforcers --- immigration, lower wages across the board, less social harmony, etc.

The amusing (and sad) thing is that the older you get, you paradoxically need a younger and younger wife, or it all makes less sense, since as a male you do better and are wiser, and what's the point otherwise? If you are solid and have resources and intelligence or wisdom, why would you get involved with someone unless to have a family with someone on that same page? Yet you are prompted by others to take the rapidly washed up off the shelves, even at your successful state. No, they wont' know anything about SMV being way higher for men post 30 and women a rapidly diminishing return. That would requite honesty about biology, not something en vogue right now.

The near entirety of human existence understood these biological laws of men and women. In the last 50 years, they suggest that we somehow changed and should just forget the past. The quintessential idiocy comes out (not that anyone really buys it) in slogans like "The future is female."

NPC: ... but modern people are "smarter"!. Yet somehow they can't figure out that we're here because of what our ancestors did before us, ummm forever. A sad truth; demon in the details.

Post Of The Day

King Twist, you said very eloquently what I experienced going out tonight and the deterioration that I've seen and experienced over the last several decades.

05-14-2019 10:24 PM
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Post: #80
RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
(05-07-2019 04:28 PM)partyfowl Wrote:  
(05-07-2019 04:06 PM)BlastbeatCasanova Wrote:  Stick to Latinas bro...they’re sweet, spicy, and submissive, as you probably already know

Or black women if you're white. The attitude you hear about black women is towards black men. A black woman usually realizes if a white man is into her she needs to quit the sassy and entitled mindset. They usually hide their power level too since black men don't appreciate domestic submission. There's A LOT less of the BLM supporters than people think they are.


Yep, black women are where it's at ! I'm 41 and dating a 26 year old bi racial women. She is super sexy and always wants to please me. She has rapped herself around my finger...
05-14-2019 11:00 PM
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TigerMandingo Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
(05-13-2019 09:50 PM)jbkunt2 Wrote:  I feel like a lot of the America hate on this forum comes from people that live in shit towns and backwaters.

What do you think America is between LA and NY? It is a country composed mainly of small towns and "backwaters". What do you wanna do, cram 300 million people into all the big cities? We're speaking in general terms here.
05-15-2019 04:00 AM
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quaker13 Offline
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
A lot of great points in the thread, but the one thing that strikes me as contradictory is incessant references to obesity. Those that know my posts know I'm the furthest thing from a White Knight, but to call out women's obesity while simultaneously ignoring ours is hypocritical. There are fucking ton of fat ass dudes out there. What's more, a lot of them have some pretty decent looking significant others.

So many of us here acknowledge the realities behind game but act impotent when it comes to the idea of reshaping a woman's values. When you have an abundance mindset and you are dealing with a chick who's attractive, career oriented and falling short on the feminine side that's where game/manipulation comes in. I was having issues with my wife who is a successful management consultant with a leadership position. She was becoming unfeminine. We had gone to counseling and nothing seem to be working. I gave her a warning shot. I told her I would be a fool to tolerate her current behavior for any prolonged lengths of time and I am not afraid to leave. I don't care what her family may think or what my family may think. Then I purposefully left my phone around her a lot unattended knowing that curiosity would eventually get the best of her. What happened? She found a text message of a Persian girl with a nude of her big double D's. My wife is Black so the Persian thing triggered an insecurity I'd wager. This was a shock to her system. We've been slowly but surely rebuilding ever since.
05-15-2019 09:17 AM
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nomadiam Offline
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
(05-14-2019 10:10 PM)brianmark Wrote:  
(05-07-2019 09:44 AM)EndsExpect Wrote:  
(05-07-2019 09:28 AM)nomadiam Wrote:  Note: Living abroad, I haven't dated an american woman in over a decade but i'm thinking about taking the plunge again, which is why i'm bringing up the topic.

On the whole... Yes, they are some of the worst women in the world. That isn't to say good ones don't exist... it's just with American women you are almost always dating down in everything but looks.

I'm also going to say that I am about your age, and I never left the US. The cultural shift over the last 20 years has been very big. The girls you knew as a teen, simply don't exist anymore. They have been replaced with shallow narcissistic women who can and do justify all bad behavior with feminist rationale.

I have to agree with EndsExpect. American women keep getting worse every year. There are fewer and fewer attractive ones. Most are giants. I was just out an Internations social tonight hoping to meet a well traveled international girl. Impossible. I met many American women. All they talk about is their careers. I feel like they are trying to convince me to hire them. They may look good, but they have zero sex appeal. They're basically just men without dicks. They have zero desire to hook up with a guy, only to better their career. If all you want to hear about is work, then American chicks are great. Just don't call them "chicks" or "girls," they're women! American chicks are bad, but professional ones are the worst, you'll always be way less important than their careers.

To nomadiam, good luck! Let me know how you feel after being back in the USA for a year. How many good American women have you met?

I'm going back to the states for a couple weeks next week. Going to start making more trips back more frequently to get a feel for how things have changed.
05-15-2019 09:33 AM
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BlackFriar Away
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
Sexy...


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05-15-2019 09:46 AM
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nomadiam Offline
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
(05-15-2019 09:46 AM)BlackFriar Wrote:  Sexy...

Three for the price of one!
05-15-2019 10:41 AM
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VincentVinturi Offline
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
There are really 2 separate but related issues: American girls as such, and American girls if you are an American.

Speaking as somebody who has lived in Asia for 7 years now, I find some American girls to be super cool, sexy and intelligent, and you can talk on the same level because there's no culture divide.

Once you get over the exotic factor of dating a sexy and submissive foreign girl the reality of trying to communicate across a culture divide sets in. It's legit tough.

Ideally you want a smart foreign girl with some education and perhaps study abroad experience, but not too much. She'd be worldly, you can communicate effectively, and you don't have to explain that there are often better way to do things than "the Thai way", or "the Japanese way", because she'd have seen it and understood it herself.

Otherwise foreign girls can be so provincial (in the figurative sense of the word) that there's not enough common ground to relate to each other. And some of them can be so provincial (in the literal sense of the word) that they think flossing will create holes between your teeth (true story).

When you're dealing with American girls—assuming you're an American—there's a lot of common ground and that's huge.

But your odds of finding a high quality American girl are pretty low unless you're way up on the SMV ladder. And the gender economics don't really favor you even if you are.

The other issue is being an American citizen. I realize I'm more paranoid than 99% of the world on this topic, but I will never have a serious relationship or get married to an American girl so long as I'm a US citizen. And that's not an indictment of American girls but rather the legal system that makes men into hostages in their own homes at best with their kids as collateral, and pure sacrificial animals at worst.

I have friends back home who are married, some happily so. Kids, the whole 9. But deep in the back of their minds they must have some inkling that if wifey decides to blow the whole thing up she can do it with the push of a button. That's a position I would never ever put myself in no matter how fly my girl is. And that's why American girls are completely off my radar. Because I know I value my freedom above all else and to willingly put yourself in a position where, statistically, you're doomed, would be clown pill 2.0. It would be the lemming pill.

It's unfortunate because the countries where the state refrains form sticking its nose into private and family affairs are growing fewer and farer [sic] between.

My Latest Book On How To Make Money Online By Offering A Service Check It Out Here
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2019 11:40 AM by VincentVinturi.)
05-15-2019 11:37 AM
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Kish Offline
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
It's funny how these threads always bring out a few whiteknights defending American women.
05-15-2019 12:11 PM
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
(05-13-2019 09:50 PM)jbkunt2 Wrote:  This thread is so dumb.
You're an average man in America and you get average girls.
I feel like a lot of the America hate on this forum comes from people that live in shit towns and backwaters.
Abroad you may have a novelty factor. But they are probably gold digging or hoping for a green card.
At least you know where you stay with an American girl..they don't need you for money or protection but will want you if your fun and make life more enjoyable.
I love American girls.
Some of you seem to be looking for an uneducated, virgin, robot from these desert. Why?

Again we come down to this short term vs. long term discussion. Very few here would disagree that America has produced some of the worlds best party sluts. In ancient times, you would say we have the greatest camp whores in world history.

However, we are talking about marrying and attempting to raise children with such a woman.

Now, I get it. For the lazy loser players... the PussCrooks out there... they want a woman that can support them. If you are a man who can't support himself... a big powerful mommy type probably looks good to you. However, for those of us who are successful professional men... these party sluts don't really seem like a good deal as a long term bet.

I think the greatest thing about the American Woman debate is that it's an easy way to tell the guys who are deep thinkers and successful, from the lower end losers. If you think the average American woman is great and you want to marry one and raise a family... I pretty much know for fact that you are a dipshit.
05-15-2019 12:43 PM
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
(05-13-2019 11:12 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  It comes down to niche to break the American individualism and lack of societal constraints. Add careerism, and you see why the incentives for men go way down --- working and careers take women out of their looks and fertility prime, raises their expectations, simultaneously not "needing" men until it's too late because the whole entering the workplace game has been played to the economy's (globalist and statist) endgame.
The issue with niche is that if you find a "religious" girl, she is still in the bad culture. And how many of those girls are truly devoted and out of the culture to a meaningful degree? Few.
No one wants to say it, but it comes down to selection pressures on women being very low when there is no dependence on men. Currently, there aren't many at all. Society is structured to take care of them, resource and safety wise. The problem is that we didn't evolve in that environment, so biology is still there but civilizational stability isn't because at least in the West, consumerism and the economics-over-everything mentalities put all the other desirable qualities to third tier. That same economy uber alles led to many other feedback reinforcers --- immigration, lower wages across the board, less social harmony, etc.
The amusing (and sad) thing is that the older you get, you paradoxically need a younger and younger wife, or it all makes less sense, since as a male you do better and are wiser, and what's the point otherwise? If you are solid and have resources and intelligence or wisdom, why would you get involved with someone unless to have a family with someone on that same page? Yet you are prompted by others to take the rapidly washed up off the shelves, even at your successful state. No, they wont' know anything about SMV being way higher for men post 30 and women a rapidly diminishing return. That would requite honesty about biology, not something en vogue right now.
The near entirety of human existence understood these biological laws of men and women. In the last 50 years, they suggest that we somehow changed and should just forget the past. The quintessential idiocy comes out (not that anyone really buys it) in slogans like "The future is female."
NPC: ... but modern people are "smarter"!. Yet somehow they can't figure out that we're here because of what our ancestors did before us, ummm forever. A sad truth; demon in the details.

Great post! Brilliant points!

I will only add this. People of luxury are by nature soft and weak, but nobody wants to live in hard times. So, the goal of modern man is to prolong the luxury as long as possible before the inevitable collapse.
05-15-2019 12:46 PM
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Conquistador Offline
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
And that's the sentiment it comes down to. Successful, professional, deep thinking men are screwed, when women don't need them.

The only two things women now need men for are social validation, and to increase their lifestyle. Making men essentially consumer assistants that keep up appearances. An expendable accessory.

Since long term marriage is pretty much dead, there is not very many options for men that want kids who want to remain in the U.S., that don't want illegitimate children. The only thing I can think of is to get married, going in with the expectation that you will get divorced.

Make sure to keep it amicable with your wife, so you can retain access to your kids. Never buy a house unless you can comfortably afford to lose it. Hide as many assets as you can, and hopefully your child support payments won't be so high, so you can still have a life.

I honestly think that if men started refusing marriage things would get better, but that will never happen.

some guys aren't built to players, some aren't built for LTR's, some are built for both. -Katotic

Every problem men have with women comes down to women not needing men. This explains why women can't love men like we love them. Disco_Volante explains it better than I can.

"One man's trash is another man's treasure"
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2019 02:06 PM by Conquistador.)
05-15-2019 01:57 PM
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
Are american women that bad has morphed into a wider discussion ....marriage and by extension american women raising kid(s) and the 50-50 chance the resultant pairing divorces.

Money is the number one reason for divorce. Why is that such an issue with couples. My own experience long ago I was recently married the new wife wanted a house a car...then a car and a van...then home renovations... then a better house....it went on and on....she was never happy unless spending money it made her feel good.

Was I married to the typical american woman who wanted self gratification NOW and the hell with the future (relationship) (family) ( all me me me me)

Today a statistic came out....couples missing a paycheck would be put into a financial crisis and we know why DEBT. So maybe I was ahead of the curve with my american beauty

I don't know how many times the wifes girlfriends would say to her and then all laugh over....Hope you make it past the 5 year itch!

I watched as the wife grew fatter and fatter and angrier about her "situation" and argue how it's better everywhere else.

Knowing the american girl mindset may help some here avoid the trap.

I fully agree to try to have a amicable divorce....but couples hate each other and that's why there is a divorce in the first place,

Staying in the kids lives is tough (forget about custody ...men rarely get that ..the woman would have to be an axe murderer and insane and even then it's a crapshoot getting custody)

Another reason it's tough. Most ex wives to keep the custody and money are negative about dear old dad to the kid (normal) it's called parental alienation.

You won't be able to instill "your values" into a child by being the every other weekend dad because the government watches over (divorce court) the child and because the schools teach the child it's okay to be gay or transgender and global warming is all that matters. Then social media and TV does the rest of the child rearing.

To be comfortable in a marriage relationship or family scenario today you have to be okay losing everything to a americian woman that is totally unaccountable in actions is a ticking time bomb of unresolved mental issues and on another planet with high expectations with no idea how to get there.

............LIFE isn't a DRESS REHEARSAL.........
05-16-2019 08:48 PM
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Kid Twist Offline
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
(05-15-2019 01:57 PM)Conquistador Wrote:  And that's the sentiment it comes down to. Successful, professional, deep thinking men are screwed, when women don't need them.

The only two things women now need men for are social validation, and to increase their lifestyle. Making men essentially consumer assistants that keep up appearances. An expendable accessory.

Great distillation of the cold reality from what we've stated.

Thumbs up, and notice that Conquistador also has the nuance of "increasing" lifestyle (they already have such a high standard as a default) as opposed to just lifestyle, which has been their biological imperative since time immemorial.

I'd like to point out also that the one savior would be the religious niche, and it is a form of social validation, but it's been degraded so much by outside inputs and wealth, it's really just so rare unless the parents are strict and the daughter has the constitution to truly be obedient and fend off distractions, bad friends , etc.

That's why I don't jump on the divorce and anti-marriage comments as much. I understand that these sentiments are true by and large, but that's because men also have become faithless and poor leaders in this regard as well; kids don't see a believing father. If you have committed parents who are of the same religious background (truly, not just in self ID, but are devoted and are examples of it) you are not in the 50% divorce camp, even in America. It's night and day, something like only 10% or so, a 5-fold difference to a fairly low occurrence overall.
05-16-2019 09:24 PM
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
For a long time, I've been a defender of American women, and dismissed the hate against them purely as "the grass is greener on the other side". After taking my first extended international trip in several years, I can say pretty clearly now that I was wrong.

My issue with American women isn't necessarily the obesity/feminism, since I've been lucky enough to live in an area where there are plenty of in-shape, physically attractive girls who don't show any outwardly feminist beliefs. Nor is it things like flakiness or sluttiness, since those traits exist with women from all over the world (although perhaps displayed in different ways).

The real difference I noticed with foreign women (in this case, Southern/Eastern European) is the absence of, for lack of better word, broism. There is a serious epidemic in the US of women who try to act like men by talking loudly, bragging constantly about themselves and their "accomplishments", drinking in excess, and in general displaying an attitude reminiscent of a college bro at a football game. And unfortunately, this isn't limited to unattractive women. I've seen plenty of 8+ US girls displaying these traits.

It's one thing when an 18-20 year old girl is slinging back shots at a college party and screaming with her friends. It's another when you see grown women doing the same thing. Dirty 30 celebrations, anybody? Every weekend that I go out, I see groups of 25+ y/o women screaming loudly, dancing wildly in their group of girls while denying any man the chance to talk to them. This shit just doesn't happen in other places (though I imagine that the UK and Australia has similar problems).

Somehow I always just took these things for granted as a part of the game, but stepping outside of the US for an extended period really showed me that there's better things out there.
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2019 07:34 PM by RDF.)
07-24-2019 07:33 PM
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Post: #94
RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
British guy in the US here - In my opinion British woman are OK to have fun with but not LTR material. American women are worse than English women - a lot of them are men with vaginas.

I often joke that White American women are the 2nd worst in the world. The worst are Black American women.
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2019 09:27 PM by WalterBlack.)
07-24-2019 09:24 PM
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RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
(07-24-2019 07:33 PM)RDF Wrote:  For a long time, I've been a defender of American women, and dismissed the hate against them purely as "the grass is greener on the other side". After taking my first extended international trip in several years, I can say pretty clearly now that I was wrong.

My issue with American women isn't necessarily the obesity/feminism, since I've been lucky enough to live in an area where there are plenty of in-shape, physically attractive girls who don't show any outwardly feminist beliefs. Nor is it things like flakiness or sluttiness, since those traits exist with women from all over the world (although perhaps displayed in different ways).

The real difference I noticed with foreign women (in this case, Southern/Eastern European) is the absence of, for lack of better word, broism. There is a serious epidemic in the US of women who try to act like men by talking loudly, bragging constantly about themselves and their "accomplishments", drinking in excess, and in general displaying an attitude reminiscent of a college bro at a football game. And unfortunately, this isn't limited to unattractive women. I've seen plenty of 8+ US girls displaying these traits.

It's one thing when an 18-20 year old girl is slinging back shots at a college party and screaming with her friends. It's another when you see grown women doing the same thing. Dirty 30 celebrations, anybody? Every weekend that I go out, I see groups of 25+ y/o women screaming loudly, dancing wildly in their group of girls while denying any man the chance to talk to them. This shit just doesn't happen in other places (though I imagine that the UK and Australia has similar problems).

Somehow I always just took these things for granted as a part of the game, but stepping outside of the US for an extended period really showed me that there's better things out there.

It comes down to a lack of proper gender expectations. The elites are pushing masculine values on women and feminine values on men. Most people are not calling women on their bad behavior so the cancer spreads.

Another problem is women's experience within hookup culture. If you talk to a lot of women, almost all of them have been burnt a few times by ghosting/cheating/noncommitment. Once they feel that vulnerability, they toughen up and try to regain that power by abusing men with ghosting/cheating/flaking etc. It then becomes a cycle where this behavior is normalized and people start treating everyone like objects.

If you take a woman in Ukraine, she probably has had 1-2 hookups which turned into long relationships. Once she is in the US, she gets burnt a few times and doesn't know what to expect. She starts to devalue men and romantic relationships.

I built this empire and I did it by myself. Nobody did it for me. Not Ivana, not Marla. Nobody! ~Donald Trump

As poorly as women are doing, men are doing ten times worse.
07-24-2019 09:40 PM
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GT777733 Offline
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Post: #96
RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
(07-24-2019 09:40 PM)Graft Wrote:  
(07-24-2019 07:33 PM)RDF Wrote:  For a long time, I've been a defender of American women, and dismissed the hate against them purely as "the grass is greener on the other side". After taking my first extended international trip in several years, I can say pretty clearly now that I was wrong.

My issue with American women isn't necessarily the obesity/feminism, since I've been lucky enough to live in an area where there are plenty of in-shape, physically attractive girls who don't show any outwardly feminist beliefs. Nor is it things like flakiness or sluttiness, since those traits exist with women from all over the world (although perhaps displayed in different ways).

The real difference I noticed with foreign women (in this case, Southern/Eastern European) is the absence of, for lack of better word, broism. There is a serious epidemic in the US of women who try to act like men by talking loudly, bragging constantly about themselves and their "accomplishments", drinking in excess, and in general displaying an attitude reminiscent of a college bro at a football game. And unfortunately, this isn't limited to unattractive women. I've seen plenty of 8+ US girls displaying these traits.

It's one thing when an 18-20 year old girl is slinging back shots at a college party and screaming with her friends. It's another when you see grown women doing the same thing. Dirty 30 celebrations, anybody? Every weekend that I go out, I see groups of 25+ y/o women screaming loudly, dancing wildly in their group of girls while denying any man the chance to talk to them. This shit just doesn't happen in other places (though I imagine that the UK and Australia has similar problems).

Somehow I always just took these things for granted as a part of the game, but stepping outside of the US for an extended period really showed me that there's better things out there.

It comes down to a lack of proper gender expectations. The elites are pushing masculine values on women and feminine values on men. Most people are not calling women on their bad behavior so the cancer spreads.

Another problem is women's experience within hookup culture. If you talk to a lot of women, almost all of them have been burnt a few times by ghosting/cheating/noncommitment. Once they feel that vulnerability, they toughen up and try to regain that power by abusing men with ghosting/cheating/flaking etc. It then becomes a cycle where this behavior is normalized and people start treating everyone like objects.

If you take a woman in Ukraine, she probably has had 1-2 hookups which turned into long relationships. Once she is in the US, she gets burnt a few times and doesn't know what to expect. She starts to devalue men and romantic relationships.

Building on all of what RDF said:
- That 'broism' is because women are so strongly encouraged to just be themselves in the West. 'Just be yourself' is code for do whatever your natural desires tell you to do, instead of acting in a way that is in accordance with the results you want in life or how you want to be treated back by the opposite sex.
This applies to men and women in reality.
Some men would love to play video games all day as that's them 'just being themselves'. But, guess what? Playing video games 24/7 isolate you, make you fat, don't earn you money and don't make you attractive to the opposite sex.
We know as men we have to do a lot of sh*t we don't necessarily want to do at heart in order to have hot or cool girls in our life. We have to go out and learn sh*t and have certain habits and standards.
Women have been blasted with that 'just be yourself' message so frequently and with such intensity, that they completely ignore that acting sloppy, loud and in a non classy way actually has long term repercussions. It means that men aren't really going to view you as a lady - they will view you as an object.
This concept is lost on some women - they think they should be able to act however they want and still receive all the benefits a traditional female would receive (whilst still being seen as equal in the workplace and in society). 100% rewards, 0% sacrifice and work essentially.

Building on what Graft said about women being burnt in the dating game:
- Here in Australia, the last 3 women I've met that have come over fresh from overseas have all shown high trust, high openness, high enthusiasm and high transparency. I actually feel their warmth and feel like they see and treat me as a valued person. They trust you as the man from the beginning to lead them on an adventure (date), and there isn't all the "are you a serial killer" or "I'm just talking to you for attention or out of boredom" vibes and questioning.
My experience when I was abroad in less Westernised regions was exactly the same - there was far less questioning or second guessing or extreme game playing - most women actively wanted talk and hang out without all the games and mental drama. I held up my end of the bargain, and they held up theirs ... everyone has a good time.
I mentioned in a thread on the forum about 6 months ago ... I met a South American girl where I live in Australia, and completely unprompted or unrelated to what we were talking about, she said "Back where I live, women like men approaching them and even physically touching them within reason ... it shows they are confident. People are open back home. Here - it's the complete opposite ... people are closed off, stick in their little clique groups, and women and men seem to avoid each other. It's even hard to make friends - people think it's weird for strangers to talk to each other or at the very least they find it weird and awkward in the beginning"

- Girls from Australia ... they tend to be enormously distrusting, indirect, misleading and flat out lie in many cases. You are playing a game where you have to jump through 9 or 10 of their hoops for just the chance of meeting them at all (if it's online dating), or meeting them again (if you've already met in person and got their number).
Healthy dating can never work like that.
When men and women have to participate in a game like that, not only is it exhausting, but people start to hate each other and the dating game, and not view each other as people anymore, but just another object.
It's a race to the bottom and a downward spiral of negativity and bitterness until you end up a shell of the person you used to be.

Ultimately I think it all comes down to polarity and trust.
You have to have the polarity of feminine and masculine, and you have to have trust between the feminine and masculine (the feminine has to trust that the man is a competent leader and that he won't hurt her or mislead her, and the man has to trust that the woman will act right and respect him)
In the West - polarity is lacking because women are increasingly masculine, and trust is lacking because people just expect now that everyone is playing a game, or is going to burn them for showing their true intentions and their true selves.
On a macro level too - when you have a society that emphasises money, status, social media, wars (between races, genders, religions), short term gains and actions, and self hatred - it starts from there and works it's way down through the individuals.
Ever wondered why mental illness, drug taking, addictions etc. seem so prevalent?

*Is it all like this in the West? No. But, it's a pretty good generalisation of what you're dealing with overall and why we continually have guys that come on the forum saying the same thing in different ways over and over. The system is generally broken - everyone is getting pushed into one side of the machine, and only a handful of healthy interactions and relationships are being pushed out the other side.
Most healthy and successful people tend to stick together and in the same or smaller circles because they know what it's like in the majority, and lower rungs of society.
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2019 11:12 PM by GT777733.)
07-24-2019 10:57 PM
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Graft Offline
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Post: #97
RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
(07-24-2019 10:57 PM)GT777733 Wrote:  
(07-24-2019 09:40 PM)Graft Wrote:  
(07-24-2019 07:33 PM)RDF Wrote:  For a long time, I've been a defender of American women, and dismissed the hate against them purely as "the grass is greener on the other side". After taking my first extended international trip in several years, I can say pretty clearly now that I was wrong.

My issue with American women isn't necessarily the obesity/feminism, since I've been lucky enough to live in an area where there are plenty of in-shape, physically attractive girls who don't show any outwardly feminist beliefs. Nor is it things like flakiness or sluttiness, since those traits exist with women from all over the world (although perhaps displayed in different ways).

The real difference I noticed with foreign women (in this case, Southern/Eastern European) is the absence of, for lack of better word, broism. There is a serious epidemic in the US of women who try to act like men by talking loudly, bragging constantly about themselves and their "accomplishments", drinking in excess, and in general displaying an attitude reminiscent of a college bro at a football game. And unfortunately, this isn't limited to unattractive women. I've seen plenty of 8+ US girls displaying these traits.

It's one thing when an 18-20 year old girl is slinging back shots at a college party and screaming with her friends. It's another when you see grown women doing the same thing. Dirty 30 celebrations, anybody? Every weekend that I go out, I see groups of 25+ y/o women screaming loudly, dancing wildly in their group of girls while denying any man the chance to talk to them. This shit just doesn't happen in other places (though I imagine that the UK and Australia has similar problems).

Somehow I always just took these things for granted as a part of the game, but stepping outside of the US for an extended period really showed me that there's better things out there.

It comes down to a lack of proper gender expectations. The elites are pushing masculine values on women and feminine values on men. Most people are not calling women on their bad behavior so the cancer spreads.

Another problem is women's experience within hookup culture. If you talk to a lot of women, almost all of them have been burnt a few times by ghosting/cheating/noncommitment. Once they feel that vulnerability, they toughen up and try to regain that power by abusing men with ghosting/cheating/flaking etc. It then becomes a cycle where this behavior is normalized and people start treating everyone like objects.

If you take a woman in Ukraine, she probably has had 1-2 hookups which turned into long relationships. Once she is in the US, she gets burnt a few times and doesn't know what to expect. She starts to devalue men and romantic relationships.

Building on all of what RDF said:
- That 'broism' is because women are so strongly encouraged to just be themselves in the West. 'Just be yourself' is code for do whatever your natural desires tell you to do, instead of acting in a way that is in accordance with the results you want in life or how you want to be treated back by the opposite sex.
This applies to men and women in reality.
Some men would love to play video games all day as that's them 'just being themselves'. But, guess what? Playing video games 24/7 isolate you, make you fat, don't earn you money and don't make you attractive to the opposite sex.
We know as men we have to do a lot of sh*t we don't necessarily want to do at heart in order to have hot or cool girls in our life. We have to go out and learn sh*t and have certain habits and standards.
Women have been blasted with that 'just be yourself' message so frequently and with such intensity, that they completely ignore that acting sloppy, loud and in a non classy way actually has long term repercussions. It means that men aren't really going to view you as a lady - they will view you as an object.
This concept is lost on some women - they think they should be able to act however they want and still receive all the benefits a traditional female would receive (whilst still being seen as equal in the workplace and in society). 100% rewards, 0% sacrifice and work essentially.

Building on what Graft said about women being burnt in the dating game:
- Here in Australia, the last 3 women I've met that have come over fresh from overseas have all shown high trust, high openness, high enthusiasm and high transparency. I actually feel their warmth and feel like they see and treat me as a valued person. They trust you as the man from the beginning to lead them on an adventure (date), and there isn't all the "are you a serial killer" or "I'm just talking to you for attention or out of boredom" vibes and questioning.
My experience when I was abroad in less Westernised regions was exactly the same - there was far less questioning or second guessing or extreme game playing - most women actively wanted talk and hang out without all the games and mental drama. I held up my end of the bargain, and they held up theirs ... everyone has a good time.
I mentioned in a thread on the forum about 6 months ago ... I met a South American girl where I live in Australia, and completely unprompted or unrelated to what we were talking about, she said "Back where I live, women like men approaching them and even physically touching them within reason ... it shows they are confident. People are open back home. Here - it's the complete opposite ... people are closed off, stick in their little clique groups, and women and men seem to avoid each other. It's even hard to make friends - people think it's weird for strangers to talk to each other or at the very least they find it weird and awkward in the beginning"

- Girls from Australia ... they tend to be enormously distrusting, indirect, misleading and flat out lie in many cases. You are playing a game where you have to jump through 9 or 10 of their hoops for just the chance of meeting them at all (if it's online dating), or meeting them again (if you've already met in person and got their number).
Healthy dating can never work like that.
When men and women have to participate in a game like that, not only is it exhausting, but people start to hate each other and the dating game, and not view each other as people anymore, but just another object.
It's a race to the bottom and a downward spiral of negativity and bitterness until you end up a shell of the person you used to be.

Ultimately I think it all comes down to polarity and trust.
You have to have the polarity of feminine and masculine, and you have to have trust between the feminine and masculine (the feminine has to trust that the man is a competent leader and that he won't hurt her or mislead her, and the man has to trust that the woman will act right and respect him)
In the West - polarity is lacking because women are increasingly masculine, and trust is lacking because people just expect now that everyone is playing a game, or is going to burn them for showing their true intentions and their true selves.
On a macro level too - when you have a society that emphasises money, status, social media, wars (between races, genders, religions), short term gains and actions, and self hatred - it starts from there and works it's way down through the individuals.
Ever wondered why mental illness, drug taking, addictions etc. seem so prevalent?

*Is it all like this in the West? No. But, it's a pretty good generalisation of what you're dealing with overall and why we continually have guys that come on the forum saying the same thing in different ways over and over. The system is generally broken - everyone is getting pushed into one side of the machine, and only a handful of healthy interactions and relationships are being pushed out the other side.
Most healthy and successful people tend to stick together and in the same or smaller circles because they know what it's like in the majority, and lower rungs of society.

Eloquent. My God. I wish I could rep you again.

I feel like explaining this to one of the girls I've been seeing. We have a good vibe but there is just total distrust due to her past (a nearly constant theme with modern women.) I should illustrate masculine/feminine polarity and her need to trust me as a man to lead.

I built this empire and I did it by myself. Nobody did it for me. Not Ivana, not Marla. Nobody! ~Donald Trump

As poorly as women are doing, men are doing ten times worse.
07-24-2019 11:35 PM
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GT777733 Offline
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Post: #98
RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
@ Graft

Thanks brother.
(This post was last modified: 07-24-2019 11:57 PM by GT777733.)
07-24-2019 11:57 PM
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nixtnext Offline
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Post: #99
RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
I'm early 40s, been swimming in the ocean for 20 years, multiple countries, a couple of observations: One is that the dating scene has changed and is changing so fast that "American girls" 10-15 years ago isn't the same as today. Facebook and Instagram have done so much damage. I mean we had Myspace and Friendster etc but you still lived in the real world. Late 90s we had dating ads in newspapers with stuff like "Male, 30, good sense of humor, seeks partner in crime". No photo. Yeah good luck. And then your own age has a lot to do with it. We all know age difference matters less in poor countries but in the West it's harder to date younger girls, even if you've got your act together.

My point is that because you've got your own age changing and the dating scene changing so fast, these types of conversations about whether it's better in America vs wherever can be quite different experiences depending on who you are and when. For example if you're a 30-year old today... 10 years ago when you were a 20-year old in America (pre Instagram) is different for 20-year olds today, both because of age and the dating scene. This would color your perception of dating in America or anywhere in the world accordingly.

I myself was 20ish in 2000, 30ish in 2010, and 40ish now. Not only was the types of girls I could realistically go for for at those different ages always different but my environment has at the same time changed drastically. I think older guys who were "dating" before the Internet went crazy would see this the clearest.
(This post was last modified: 07-25-2019 05:36 AM by nixtnext.)
07-25-2019 05:31 AM
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Post: #100
RE: Are American Women Really That Bad?
(07-25-2019 05:31 AM)nixtnext Wrote:  Facebook and Instagram have done so much damage.

I agree with everything you said but this is especially important. I would swap FB with Tinder and it would be spot on. It isn't exclusive to American women, unfortunately. Women online think they're hot shit when they're definitely not. This feels like the worst time to be looking for LTR online when in the past it was ez mode if you had half a brain. Women have high expectations while men have low expectations. It's an ideal time to be a fat chick online, which is the exact opposite when I began being online in 1999.
07-25-2019 06:49 PM
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