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How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
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Lace em up Offline
Robin
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Post: #676
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
Ive been holding off on asking questions related to programming until I completes an introductory computer science course. Its called CS50 and is offered through EdX. They use C during the course and Im told its a great foundation language. (Their is an alternate course that teaches intro CS using Python)

I cant help but think there could be a better foundation language to learn.

As I understand it, different industries favor different languages.

Speaking with a guy from a local tech company, tho hes not a programmer, he said they use C++ and he thinks they also use Python.

My question is, is C a good foundation for C++?

My goal is to become a knowledgeable and competent programmer.

Thanks
01-25-2020 10:20 AM
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kel Offline
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Post: #677
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
(01-25-2020 10:20 AM)Lace em up Wrote:  My question is, is C a good foundation for C++?

Not really, unnecessary in any event, and neither is a good idea for getting off the ground. C isn't going anywhere, but it's not the hot language and it requires more discipline and fiddling than higher-level languages. I hate python and ruby and shit, but the simple fact is if your goal is to get a job (as you indicated in the other thread) you should learn a marketable, easy to learn, forgiving language like Python and focus on the skills, tools, and libraries startups are using.

I hate giving the above advice, because it'll turn you into the exact person I hate dealing with at work and have little respect for, but on an individual level it's good advice. I hope you'll continue your education, get more rigorous and really learn the art of crafting good software, but the shortest path from where you are to a high-paying job is taking a few weeks to learn practical python (first the fundamentals then the tools, learn django or whatever the popular server framework is now) and then trying to get a job where you can continue learning on-the-clock and build your resume.
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2020 02:11 PM by kel.)
01-25-2020 02:09 PM
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FullThrottleTX Offline
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Post: #678
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
(01-25-2020 02:09 PM)kel Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 10:20 AM)Lace em up Wrote:  My question is, is C a good foundation for C++?

Not really, unnecessary in any event, and neither is a good idea for getting off the ground. C isn't going anywhere, but it's not the hot language and it requires more discipline and fiddling than higher-level languages. I hate python and ruby and shit, but the simple fact is if your goal is to get a job (as you indicated in the other thread) you should learn a marketable, easy to learn, forgiving language like Python and focus on the skills, tools, and libraries startups are using.

I hate giving the above advice, because it'll turn you into the exact person I hate dealing with at work and have little respect for, but on an individual level it's good advice. I hope you'll continue your education, get more rigorous and really learn the art of crafting good software, but the shortest path from where you are to a high-paying job is taking a few weeks to learn practical python (first the fundamentals then the tools, learn django or whatever the popular server framework is now) and then trying to get a job where you can continue learning on-the-clock and build your resume.

Truth of the matter is your personality and interests should probably dictate what kind of environment you should target for your tech skills. I've worked with quite a few of these "this is my craft" kinda guys. They tend to be slow, dogmatic, and overcomplicate things. Since they don't have a business-sided objective, they need an engineering manager to advocate for them. I think these personalities are a better fit in a big company where they'll have the time and support to "do things the right way", and less so in a startup environment where they'll be frustrated by deadlines and pressure to deliver new features that may not have 100% code coverage, perfect accessibility, ect.

I don't have a ton of interest in the craft of programming beyond discovering ways to make the outcome better for end users and business users alike. My interest is delivering for the business and seeing my work out there in production. Code is just code, but the thing I'm building and the problems I'm solving are what's important.
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2020 02:27 PM by FullThrottleTX.)
01-25-2020 02:23 PM
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Lace em up
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Robin
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Post: #679
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
(01-25-2020 02:23 PM)FullThrottleTX Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:09 PM)kel Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 10:20 AM)Lace em up Wrote:  My question is, is C a good foundation for C++?

Not really, unnecessary in any event, and neither is a good idea for getting off the ground. C isn't going anywhere, but it's not the hot language and it requires more discipline and fiddling than higher-level languages. I hate python and ruby and shit, but the simple fact is if your goal is to get a job (as you indicated in the other thread) you should learn a marketable, easy to learn, forgiving language like Python and focus on the skills, tools, and libraries startups are using.

I hate giving the above advice, because it'll turn you into the exact person I hate dealing with at work and have little respect for, but on an individual level it's good advice. I hope you'll continue your education, get more rigorous and really learn the art of crafting good software, but the shortest path from where you are to a high-paying job is taking a few weeks to learn practical python (first the fundamentals then the tools, learn django or whatever the popular server framework is now) and then trying to get a job where you can continue learning on-the-clock and build your resume.

Truth of the matter is your personality and interests should probably dictate what kind of environment you should target for your tech skills. I've worked with quite a few of these "this is my craft" kinda guys. They tend to be slow, dogmatic, and overcomplicate things. Since they don't have a business-sided objective, they need an engineering manager to advocate for them. I think these personalities are a better fit in a big company where they'll have the time and support to "do things the right way", and less so in a startup environment where they'll be frustrated by deadlines and pressure to deliver new features that may not have 100% code coverage, perfect accessibility, ect.

I don't have a ton of interest in the craft of programming beyond discovering ways to make the outcome better for end users and business users alike. My interest is delivering for the business and seeing my work out there in production. Code is just code, but the thing I'm building and the problems I'm solving are what's important.

I plan to stay away from the big companies as I dont want to deal their bs. I'll be focusing on startups, it seems. Does the direct to Python route seem like the best route to take? Any other advice would be welcome.

Thanks
01-25-2020 02:42 PM
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FullThrottleTX Offline
Robin
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Post: #680
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
(01-25-2020 02:42 PM)Lace em up Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:23 PM)FullThrottleTX Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:09 PM)kel Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 10:20 AM)Lace em up Wrote:  My question is, is C a good foundation for C++?

Not really, unnecessary in any event, and neither is a good idea for getting off the ground. C isn't going anywhere, but it's not the hot language and it requires more discipline and fiddling than higher-level languages. I hate python and ruby and shit, but the simple fact is if your goal is to get a job (as you indicated in the other thread) you should learn a marketable, easy to learn, forgiving language like Python and focus on the skills, tools, and libraries startups are using.

I hate giving the above advice, because it'll turn you into the exact person I hate dealing with at work and have little respect for, but on an individual level it's good advice. I hope you'll continue your education, get more rigorous and really learn the art of crafting good software, but the shortest path from where you are to a high-paying job is taking a few weeks to learn practical python (first the fundamentals then the tools, learn django or whatever the popular server framework is now) and then trying to get a job where you can continue learning on-the-clock and build your resume.

Truth of the matter is your personality and interests should probably dictate what kind of environment you should target for your tech skills. I've worked with quite a few of these "this is my craft" kinda guys. They tend to be slow, dogmatic, and overcomplicate things. Since they don't have a business-sided objective, they need an engineering manager to advocate for them. I think these personalities are a better fit in a big company where they'll have the time and support to "do things the right way", and less so in a startup environment where they'll be frustrated by deadlines and pressure to deliver new features that may not have 100% code coverage, perfect accessibility, ect.

I don't have a ton of interest in the craft of programming beyond discovering ways to make the outcome better for end users and business users alike. My interest is delivering for the business and seeing my work out there in production. Code is just code, but the thing I'm building and the problems I'm solving are what's important.

I plan to stay away from the big companies as I dont want to deal their bs. I'll be focusing on startups, it seems. Does the direct to Python route seem like the best route to take? Any other advice would be welcome.

Thanks

Startups have a fair share of BS too... Don't get me started on ping pong tables. Because startups are very heavy in millennials, you're going to find more SJWs.
Big company gigs are very cushy by comparison.

JavaScript/Node and Python.
HTML and CSS.

You can learn all of these easily as a beginner.
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2020 02:45 PM by FullThrottleTX.)
01-25-2020 02:44 PM
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Lace em up Offline
Robin
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Post: #681
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
(01-25-2020 02:44 PM)FullThrottleTX Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:42 PM)Lace em up Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:23 PM)FullThrottleTX Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:09 PM)kel Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 10:20 AM)Lace em up Wrote:  My question is, is C a good foundation for C++?

Not really, unnecessary in any event, and neither is a good idea for getting off the ground. C isn't going anywhere, but it's not the hot language and it requires more discipline and fiddling than higher-level languages. I hate python and ruby and shit, but the simple fact is if your goal is to get a job (as you indicated in the other thread) you should learn a marketable, easy to learn, forgiving language like Python and focus on the skills, tools, and libraries startups are using.

I hate giving the above advice, because it'll turn you into the exact person I hate dealing with at work and have little respect for, but on an individual level it's good advice. I hope you'll continue your education, get more rigorous and really learn the art of crafting good software, but the shortest path from where you are to a high-paying job is taking a few weeks to learn practical python (first the fundamentals then the tools, learn django or whatever the popular server framework is now) and then trying to get a job where you can continue learning on-the-clock and build your resume.

Truth of the matter is your personality and interests should probably dictate what kind of environment you should target for your tech skills. I've worked with quite a few of these "this is my craft" kinda guys. They tend to be slow, dogmatic, and overcomplicate things. Since they don't have a business-sided objective, they need an engineering manager to advocate for them. I think these personalities are a better fit in a big company where they'll have the time and support to "do things the right way", and less so in a startup environment where they'll be frustrated by deadlines and pressure to deliver new features that may not have 100% code coverage, perfect accessibility, ect.

I don't have a ton of interest in the craft of programming beyond discovering ways to make the outcome better for end users and business users alike. My interest is delivering for the business and seeing my work out there in production. Code is just code, but the thing I'm building and the problems I'm solving are what's important.

I plan to stay away from the big companies as I dont want to deal their bs. I'll be focusing on startups, it seems. Does the direct to Python route seem like the best route to take? Any other advice would be welcome.

Thanks

Startups have a fair share of BS too... Don't get me started on ping pong tables. Because startups are very heavy in millennials, you're going to find more SJWs.
Big company gigs are very cushy by comparison.

JavaScript/Node and Python.
HTML and CSS.

You can learn all of these easily as a beginner.

Every time I think I learn something about the business in general, I find out I dont know what I think I know. So big companies have less SJWs. Thats the crazy bs Im trying to avoid, as much as possible. So big companies it is.

Does your previously mentioned route hold true for larger companies?

Thanks
(This post was last modified: 01-25-2020 02:55 PM by Lace em up.)
01-25-2020 02:54 PM
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FullThrottleTX Offline
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Post: #682
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
(01-25-2020 02:54 PM)Lace em up Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:44 PM)FullThrottleTX Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:42 PM)Lace em up Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:23 PM)FullThrottleTX Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:09 PM)kel Wrote:  Not really, unnecessary in any event, and neither is a good idea for getting off the ground. C isn't going anywhere, but it's not the hot language and it requires more discipline and fiddling than higher-level languages. I hate python and ruby and shit, but the simple fact is if your goal is to get a job (as you indicated in the other thread) you should learn a marketable, easy to learn, forgiving language like Python and focus on the skills, tools, and libraries startups are using.

I hate giving the above advice, because it'll turn you into the exact person I hate dealing with at work and have little respect for, but on an individual level it's good advice. I hope you'll continue your education, get more rigorous and really learn the art of crafting good software, but the shortest path from where you are to a high-paying job is taking a few weeks to learn practical python (first the fundamentals then the tools, learn django or whatever the popular server framework is now) and then trying to get a job where you can continue learning on-the-clock and build your resume.

Truth of the matter is your personality and interests should probably dictate what kind of environment you should target for your tech skills. I've worked with quite a few of these "this is my craft" kinda guys. They tend to be slow, dogmatic, and overcomplicate things. Since they don't have a business-sided objective, they need an engineering manager to advocate for them. I think these personalities are a better fit in a big company where they'll have the time and support to "do things the right way", and less so in a startup environment where they'll be frustrated by deadlines and pressure to deliver new features that may not have 100% code coverage, perfect accessibility, ect.

I don't have a ton of interest in the craft of programming beyond discovering ways to make the outcome better for end users and business users alike. My interest is delivering for the business and seeing my work out there in production. Code is just code, but the thing I'm building and the problems I'm solving are what's important.

I plan to stay away from the big companies as I dont want to deal their bs. I'll be focusing on startups, it seems. Does the direct to Python route seem like the best route to take? Any other advice would be welcome.

Thanks

Startups have a fair share of BS too... Don't get me started on ping pong tables. Because startups are very heavy in millennials, you're going to find more SJWs.
Big company gigs are very cushy by comparison.

JavaScript/Node and Python.
HTML and CSS.

You can learn all of these easily as a beginner.

Every time I think I learn something about the business in general, I find out I dont know what I think I know. So big companies have less SJWs. Thats the crazy bs Im trying to avoid, as much as possible. So big companies it is.

Does your previously mentioned route hold true for larger companies?

Thanks

What "crazy BS" are you trying to avoid?

More young people in startups, whereas big companies have a mix of ages.

Stack depends on the job.
01-25-2020 03:47 PM
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Lace em up Offline
Robin
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Post: #683
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
(01-25-2020 03:47 PM)FullThrottleTX Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:54 PM)Lace em up Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:44 PM)FullThrottleTX Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:42 PM)Lace em up Wrote:  
(01-25-2020 02:23 PM)FullThrottleTX Wrote:  Truth of the matter is your personality and interests should probably dictate what kind of environment you should target for your tech skills. I've worked with quite a few of these "this is my craft" kinda guys. They tend to be slow, dogmatic, and overcomplicate things. Since they don't have a business-sided objective, they need an engineering manager to advocate for them. I think these personalities are a better fit in a big company where they'll have the time and support to "do things the right way", and less so in a startup environment where they'll be frustrated by deadlines and pressure to deliver new features that may not have 100% code coverage, perfect accessibility, ect.

I don't have a ton of interest in the craft of programming beyond discovering ways to make the outcome better for end users and business users alike. My interest is delivering for the business and seeing my work out there in production. Code is just code, but the thing I'm building and the problems I'm solving are what's important.

I plan to stay away from the big companies as I dont want to deal their bs. I'll be focusing on startups, it seems. Does the direct to Python route seem like the best route to take? Any other advice would be welcome.

Thanks

Startups have a fair share of BS too... Don't get me started on ping pong tables. Because startups are very heavy in millennials, you're going to find more SJWs.
Big company gigs are very cushy by comparison.

JavaScript/Node and Python.
HTML and CSS.

You can learn all of these easily as a beginner.

Every time I think I learn something about the business in general, I find out I dont know what I think I know. So big companies have less SJWs. Thats the crazy bs Im trying to avoid, as much as possible. So big companies it is.

Does your previously mentioned route hold true for larger companies?

Thanks

What "crazy BS" are you trying to avoid?

More young people in startups, whereas big companies have a mix of ages.

Stack depends on the job.

I am trying to avoid working with SJWs and their crazy BS. (Bruce Jenner being named "Woman of the Year" levels of crazy BS) I am aware I may need to take a job that is less than desirable for my first programming job. As a gen Xer, I would like to position myself as to not be slamming my dick in the door. I realize I wont be hireable at Google or Amazon or Facebook etc...

Short term goal - Get hired as a programmer at medium sized company.

Medium term goal - Get good at programming. Find high paying job.

Long term (5 yr) goal - Become an excellent programmer. Work remote.

Thanks
01-25-2020 06:07 PM
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worldtraveler3 Offline
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Post: #684
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
its good you have clear goals. now the next step is get out there and approach companies, online and through events. I think you wouldnt need 5 years to work remote though. 3 years should be enough, prob depends on what market you are in but 3 years you should be good at it.

The thing about big companies is that your progression might be slower and you might feel you arent learning as much.
01-26-2020 05:19 AM
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lestatt Offline
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Post: #685
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
I need advice: I am 49 years old and I work in a multinational company in Italy and I am paid pretty well as a software developer in the Java Enterprise environment.
My desire was to change roles and become project managers, unfortunately it seems that the company has no intention of making me do anything else.
Having to stay in a technical role, what do you advise me to study to update myself professionally?
I don't like the frontend part, and I'd love to start my own company...
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2020 06:06 AM by lestatt.)
01-26-2020 06:06 AM
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kel Offline
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Post: #686
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
(01-26-2020 06:06 AM)lestatt Wrote:  I need advice: I am 49 years old and I work in a multinational company in Italy and I am paid pretty well as a software developer in the Java Enterprise environment.
My desire was to change roles and become project managers, unfortunately it seems that the company has no intention of making me do anything else.
Having to stay in a technical role, what do you advise me to study to update myself professionally?
I don't like the frontend part, and I'd love to start my own company...

In terms of tech, something boring but reliable and more modern than Java. Python, NodeJS (I know you don't like frontend, but if you get experience with JS on the backend you could quickly up your frontend game as well if it became advantageous), etc.

I suggest, though, that you look to move out to move up, and stick with your plan to become a project manager. At 49, if you want to move into management you'd better do it now, establish yourself as a wise sage who focuses on the big picture and managing and mentoring people. Apply to other companies and just tell them the truth - you've been honing your management and project planning skills for years, but you've hit the ceiling in your current organization, so you're looking to make a move.
01-26-2020 02:19 PM
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worldtraveler3 Offline
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Post: #687
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
What’s wrong with java developers ?

I would also suggest moving ASAP, how long have you been there? Don’t be like the developers who are still developers for 10 years.
(This post was last modified: 01-26-2020 05:23 PM by worldtraveler3.)
01-26-2020 05:20 PM
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lestatt Offline
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Post: #688
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
I’m here since october 2017 ... in this two years i worked as developer for some projects based on old technologies such as struts...
01-27-2020 11:17 AM
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DigitalAnimal Offline
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Post: #689
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
How is IR35 affecting your contracting at the minute @frenchcorporation ?

Managed to get on a free, pretty well known UK coding bootcamp based in the Midlands. Learning Javascript and React at the moment. Shit is super intense, but I'm glad I made the leap to do it
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2020 05:26 PM by DigitalAnimal.)
02-21-2020 05:25 PM
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Maurice Ravel Offline
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Post: #690
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
TechLead has made two videos recently in which he talks about the "diversity-gone-too-far" hiring processes.

In the second video he shows an instance where an Oracle internship mentioned "African Americans, Latino, Native Americans, and/or Women" in the Eligibility section.

Quote:Title VII of Civil Rights Act of 1964
SEC. 2000e-2. [Section 703]
(a) It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer -

(1) to fail or refuse to hire or to discharge any individual, or otherwise to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;







Do you guys who work in the field have seen this? Or is it blown out of proportion?
03-10-2020 06:14 PM
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kel Offline
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Post: #691
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
Too long, didn't watch, but big corporations almost always have something like "we specifically encourage.... to apply" type lines in their job listings, and startups will at least have some kind of diversity statement in their ToS that nobody reads.

That kind of open discrimination is preferable, IMO. More pernicious is the culture of self-censor, or even culture of de facto mandatory active endorsement. I've worked at both big tech companies and hip startups, and both are high on their own supply culturally. None dare question it, really. It's nice when, in an intimiate one-on-one type situation, you can break the ice a little. Just a bit, in a fun way, I'm not talking going 1488, but with a coworker you can make a joke that you know you're not supposed to. Aiming for small "transgressions" like that, that's what it's come to.
03-10-2020 10:05 PM
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Oberrheiner Offline
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Post: #692
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
(03-10-2020 06:14 PM)Maurice Ravel Wrote:  Do you guys who work in the field have seen this? Or is it blown out of proportion?

This is real, unfortunately.
03-11-2020 01:56 PM
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Sankt Michael Offline
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Post: #693
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
Never seen it in Germany. It is forbidden, but I do not know how it would be handled in reality. My employer recently changed the job offers that where listed as "young professional" because it is discriminating against old people. Everybody thought ist was stupid, but it was still changed just to be save.
03-12-2020 06:32 AM
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JiggyLordJr Offline
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Post: #694
RE: How to get a job as a python (or any other language) developer
(03-10-2020 06:14 PM)Maurice Ravel Wrote:  Do you guys who work in the field have seen this? Or is it blown out of proportion?

Yes. It's the worst.

I've seen it firsthand, having worked in various sectors across the white collar world, including tech. Unfortunately, many tech jobs have these "requirements", even for the higher-skilled jobs. As if having extra pigment or a vagina somehow makes you extra qualified to code. Basically what these ads are saying in simple English is: "If you're a white or asian male, we'll only consider you after we've leafed through every female/minority application." So yes, it's that bad.

It's discrimination in a very clear sense: Asian and Caucasian males are being discriminated against by many tech employers. If this continues past a certain point, I'll look into taking some legal action against these companies. Meritocracy is the only way forward.
03-12-2020 11:52 AM
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